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ionman34
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    The truth about joe cole.

    ArnieArdiles
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    Post by ArnieArdiles Sun Jun 13 2010, 00:39

    Okies cheers Baz ... So obviously Harry rates him and I think did have a pop at Capello about his ommision from the squad...
    Oh well time will tell ....
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    Post by djfitzo Sun Jun 13 2010, 17:53

    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    Mark2spark wrote:Joe Cole, uninjured, is quality, and only a fool would say that he wouldn't be a useful addition to their squad.

    Our debt is approx 270 mill, some 35 mill repaid ahead of schedule, which is fixed at preferable rates for the full term. Totally managable even if we miss out on CL 1 out of 4 years.
    We have a 70 mill transfer kitty available, without any fab sale funds. & 30 odd more mill to come in 18 months time with the first lot of social housing released. Pretty much every seat sold at every match.
    Don't you go worrying about our finances lol shame you have to hide yours in caribbean tax havens lol

    If thats the case Mark, why hasnt Wenger strengthened so that you can compete with Manure and Chelski? As everybody got closer to them last season and all three of you lost more games then you normally do, regardless of Manures debt, they will identify why they lost more games then usual and add to their squad, Chelski have just let Joe Cole go, that tells you what kind of player they will be looking at after the world cup. This close season will be big for Wenger and if he keeps thinking he can pull rabbits out of the hat, sure as eggs is eggs, you will fall further behind.
    we finished 3rd this year dave, last year we finished 4th, that aint going backwards mate.
    So whats where you finished got to do with falling further behind Manure and Chelski, are you happy with finishing 3/4th? Dont you want to go back to winning the prem and silverware? Cos if Wenger dont change his stance I cant see that you will compete at the very highest level.
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    Post by tressman1 Sun Jun 13 2010, 19:48

    Ion!!!! It was a simple question !!!!!!!do you think the supporters of Leeds United, Portsmouth, Winbledon Ect would now if they had a chance!!!!! blindly follow the lead of their Board/manager/Chairman!!!!or do you think they would like to have brought them to task about decision's made by these people about their club!!! No waffle, non of your now famous long winded answers that go on & on and say nothing about the question posed!!!!!!no smoke !!!!!no mirrors!!!!! simple question just needs a simple answer!!! if you dont mind!!!!!!
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    Post by Guest Sun Jun 13 2010, 19:57

    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    Mark2spark wrote:Joe Cole, uninjured, is quality, and only a fool would say that he wouldn't be a useful addition to their squad.

    Our debt is approx 270 mill, some 35 mill repaid ahead of schedule, which is fixed at preferable rates for the full term. Totally managable even if we miss out on CL 1 out of 4 years.
    We have a 70 mill transfer kitty available, without any fab sale funds. & 30 odd more mill to come in 18 months time with the first lot of social housing released. Pretty much every seat sold at every match.
    Don't you go worrying about our finances lol shame you have to hide yours in caribbean tax havens lol

    If thats the case Mark, why hasnt Wenger strengthened so that you can compete with Manure and Chelski? As everybody got closer to them last season and all three of you lost more games then you normally do, regardless of Manures debt, they will identify why they lost more games then usual and add to their squad, Chelski have just let Joe Cole go, that tells you what kind of player they will be looking at after the world cup. This close season will be big for Wenger and if he keeps thinking he can pull rabbits out of the hat, sure as eggs is eggs, you will fall further behind.
    we finished 3rd this year dave, last year we finished 4th, that aint going backwards mate.
    So whats where you finished got to do with falling further behind Manure and Chelski, are you happy with finishing 3/4th? Dont you want to go back to winning the prem and silverware? Cos if Wenger dont change his stance I cant see that you will compete at the very highest level.
    where u finish in the league has everything to do with it, 4th then 3rd is improvement, it doesn matter how u dress it up. more points as well. please expalin how manu and chelsea have got further away from us when we were still in the title race with 4 games to go. u can knock us if u like, i expect this, but dont talk utter shite about us when the facts are there in black and white.
    ionman34
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    Post by ionman34 Mon Jun 14 2010, 00:51

    [quote="tressman1"]Ion!!!! It was a simple question !!!!!!!do you think the supporters of Leeds United, Portsmouth, Winbledon Ect would now if they had a chance!!!!! blindly follow the lead of their Board/manager/Chairman!!!!or do you think they would like to have brought them to task about decision's made by these people about their club!!! No waffle, non of your now famous long winded answers that go on & on and say nothing about the question posed!!!!!!no smoke !!!!!no mirrors!!!!! simple question just needs a simple answer!!! if you dont mind!!!!!!

    I don't advocate blind faith but I do advocate trust. Trust, the same as respect, has to be earned. I believe that the management of our club has earned that trust so I give it freely. Don't get me wrong, I question what I don't understand but the point I was making is that when all is done and dusted and the player in question is signed, I then offer my full support. To do else can only undermine and that is the antithesis of support.

    Let me give you a prime example, I was wholey against us signing Crouch when Redknapp went after him. I didn't really rate him at all and thought it was a huge mistake. However, when he was signed he got my backing and, due to his hard work and me seeing far more of him than previously, he won me over. Now I'm not for one minute stating that I believe he should be a starter, what I am saying is that Redknapp bought him for a reason that I didn't understand at first but now do. He really does offer us something different as Harry stated. He brought back Khaboul who has been a revelation, he brought in Krancjar who was superb. In a nutshell the only decision I can see that Redknapp didn't quite get right was his delay in bringing Pav into the first team. Even then I'm not so sure he didn't manage Pav well but we've covered that ground already.


    Put it this way, if Redknapp bought Downing, who I detest, I'd be up in arms over the decision ....................... But the guy would get my full backing once he pulled on the Lillywhite because anything else would undermine his play and that is detrimental to Tottenham.

    I suppose what it all boils down to is tolerance and belief. The ability to tolerate the mistakes which will inevitably happen and the belief that it will all come good in the fullness of time. Now I expect us to have a much harder season next season. We'll be a target and I expect slips. I do believe that they will just be symptoms of our 'growing pains' and that, once we're over them, we'll be throttling the other three for top spot.

    I can't stress enough just how much I believe that, we WILL see a title winning Spurs side if we keep faith. THAT is why the management gets my backing, regardless of whether I agree with or understand their decisions.

    You are right to a degree in that management should be held accountable for mistakes, but only if they keep making the same mistakes. Error is a part of growth and is a great teacher, but patience is required from all parties to allow those lessons to be learnt. Surely the debacle with Jol and Ramos taught us that?

    The same would be said by supporters of Leeds United, and for Wimbledon!!!! I would go on !!!!
    Bring cole into our side has a big risk involved with players unhappy about his wage demand ect!!!! IMO

    But that will depend on the structure of any deal. As I posted previously, if an up front payment is paid to Cole, thus ensuring that his wage is in line with the other top earners at the club, where is the disharmony? The more I consider it the more I like the idea of Cole in a Spurs shirt, if only to put pressure on other players to maintain peak performance

    He is quality and has an excellent work ethic. I'm sure Redknapp will ensure that the team remains harmonious, he did it with Pav hey?

    I have faith that he will anyway.

    I've copied and pasted it again Tress as you appear to have ignored it, or it's gone over your head. Pay particular attention to the first paragraph.

    No smoke or mirrors here, it may be 'long winded', as you put it, but it is fairly clear.

    Just point out the bits that you are struggling with and I'll be more than pleased to 'enlighten' you.
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    Post by djfitzo Mon Jun 14 2010, 19:50

    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    Mark2spark wrote:Joe Cole, uninjured, is quality, and only a fool would say that he wouldn't be a useful addition to their squad.

    Our debt is approx 270 mill, some 35 mill repaid ahead of schedule, which is fixed at preferable rates for the full term. Totally managable even if we miss out on CL 1 out of 4 years.
    We have a 70 mill transfer kitty available, without any fab sale funds. & 30 odd more mill to come in 18 months time with the first lot of social housing released. Pretty much every seat sold at every match.
    Don't you go worrying about our finances lol shame you have to hide yours in caribbean tax havens lol

    If thats the case Mark, why hasnt Wenger strengthened so that you can compete with Manure and Chelski? As everybody got closer to them last season and all three of you lost more games then you normally do, regardless of Manures debt, they will identify why they lost more games then usual and add to their squad, Chelski have just let Joe Cole go, that tells you what kind of player they will be looking at after the world cup. This close season will be big for Wenger and if he keeps thinking he can pull rabbits out of the hat, sure as eggs is eggs, you will fall further behind.
    we finished 3rd this year dave, last year we finished 4th, that aint going backwards mate.
    So whats where you finished got to do with falling further behind Manure and Chelski, are you happy with finishing 3/4th? Dont you want to go back to winning the prem and silverware? Cos if Wenger dont change his stance I cant see that you will compete at the very highest level.
    where u finish in the league has everything to do with it, 4th then 3rd is improvement, it doesn matter how u dress it up. more points as well. please expalin how manu and chelsea have got further away from us when we were still in the title race with 4 games to go. u can knock us if u like, i expect this, but dont talk utter shite about us when the facts are there in black and white.

    The facts are you having won anything!! YOU can dress it up all you like, but no silverware in the cupboard and the fact that Chelski and Manure had relatively poor seasons is why you even got a sniff last term, your blind faith with Wenger is astounding, all good things come to end Burger, the fact you cant see what a lot of other Arsenal fans see is worrying!!
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    Post by tressman1 Tue Jun 15 2010, 00:17

    So Ion you cant / wont answer the question!!!!!!! you have waffled on, you have not address the supporters question I posed!!!!!! long winded rubbish with no relevance to the question posed, but that's your way!!!!!!! dont worry about it Ion, clearly the question in this case was simply too dam hard for you to give a straight answer!!!!!
    It over it!!!!!!move on!!!!!!!
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 02:02

    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    Mark2spark wrote:Joe Cole, uninjured, is quality, and only a fool would say that he wouldn't be a useful addition to their squad.

    Our debt is approx 270 mill, some 35 mill repaid ahead of schedule, which is fixed at preferable rates for the full term. Totally managable even if we miss out on CL 1 out of 4 years.
    We have a 70 mill transfer kitty available, without any fab sale funds. & 30 odd more mill to come in 18 months time with the first lot of social housing released. Pretty much every seat sold at every match.
    Don't you go worrying about our finances lol shame you have to hide yours in caribbean tax havens lol

    If thats the case Mark, why hasnt Wenger strengthened so that you can compete with Manure and Chelski? As everybody got closer to them last season and all three of you lost more games then you normally do, regardless of Manures debt, they will identify why they lost more games then usual and add to their squad, Chelski have just let Joe Cole go, that tells you what kind of player they will be looking at after the world cup. This close season will be big for Wenger and if he keeps thinking he can pull rabbits out of the hat, sure as eggs is eggs, you will fall further behind.
    we finished 3rd this year dave, last year we finished 4th, that aint going backwards mate.
    So whats where you finished got to do with falling further behind Manure and Chelski, are you happy with finishing 3/4th? Dont you want to go back to winning the prem and silverware? Cos if Wenger dont change his stance I cant see that you will compete at the very highest level.
    where u finish in the league has everything to do with it, 4th then 3rd is improvement, it doesn matter how u dress it up. more points as well. please expalin how manu and chelsea have got further away from us when we were still in the title race with 4 games to go. u can knock us if u like, i expect this, but dont talk utter shite about us when the facts are there in black and white.

    The facts are you having won anything!! YOU can dress it up all you like, but no silverware in the cupboard and the fact that Chelski and Manure had relatively poor seasons is why you even got a sniff last term, your blind faith with Wenger is astounding, all good things come to end Burger, the fact you cant see what a lot of other Arsenal fans see is worrying!!
    wenger aint won anything pmsl, how can i debate with that.
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    Post by djfitzo Tue Jun 15 2010, 02:41

    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    burger777 wrote:
    djfitzo wrote:
    Mark2spark wrote:Joe Cole, uninjured, is quality, and only a fool would say that he wouldn't be a useful addition to their squad.

    Our debt is approx 270 mill, some 35 mill repaid ahead of schedule, which is fixed at preferable rates for the full term. Totally managable even if we miss out on CL 1 out of 4 years.
    We have a 70 mill transfer kitty available, without any fab sale funds. & 30 odd more mill to come in 18 months time with the first lot of social housing released. Pretty much every seat sold at every match.
    Don't you go worrying about our finances lol shame you have to hide yours in caribbean tax havens lol

    If thats the case Mark, why hasnt Wenger strengthened so that you can compete with Manure and Chelski? As everybody got closer to them last season and all three of you lost more games then you normally do, regardless of Manures debt, they will identify why they lost more games then usual and add to their squad, Chelski have just let Joe Cole go, that tells you what kind of player they will be looking at after the world cup. This close season will be big for Wenger and if he keeps thinking he can pull rabbits out of the hat, sure as eggs is eggs, you will fall further behind.
    we finished 3rd this year dave, last year we finished 4th, that aint going backwards mate.
    So whats where you finished got to do with falling further behind Manure and Chelski, are you happy with finishing 3/4th? Dont you want to go back to winning the prem and silverware? Cos if Wenger dont change his stance I cant see that you will compete at the very highest level.
    where u finish in the league has everything to do with it, 4th then 3rd is improvement, it doesn matter how u dress it up. more points as well. please expalin how manu and chelsea have got further away from us when we were still in the title race with 4 games to go. u can knock us if u like, i expect this, but dont talk utter shite about us when the facts are there in black and white.

    The facts are you having won anything!! YOU can dress it up all you like, but no silverware in the cupboard and the fact that Chelski and Manure had relatively poor seasons is why you even got a sniff last term, your blind faith with Wenger is astounding, all good things come to end Burger, the fact you cant see what a lot of other Arsenal fans see is worrying!!
    wenger aint won anything pmsl, how can i debate with that.

    You know exactly what i meant, by i'll correct grammatically

    The facts are you having won anything recently
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 02:49

    so is it improvement we are talking about or the amount of trophies recently, we finished higher than the season before, we played better than the season before, we have better players than the season before. this is improvement dave, this is not going backwards like u say, not quite where we wanna be, but going the right way all the same, no team has the devine right to win anything and that goes for arsenal as well. so if u are tryuing to get me to say arsenal are going backwards because we aint won anything for a while u will be wasting your time. wenger getting us to champ league every year is a great acheivemnet with his spending and us moving house,
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    Post by djfitzo Tue Jun 15 2010, 03:03

    burger777 wrote:so is it improvement we are talking about or the amount of trophies recently, we finished higher than the season before, we played better than the season before, we have better players than the season before. this is improvement dave, this is not going backwards like u say, not quite where we wanna be, but going the right way all the same, no team has the devine right to win anything and that goes for arsenal as well. so if u are tryuing to get me to say arsenal are going backwards because we aint won anything for a while u will be wasting your time. wenger getting us to champ league every year is a great acheivemnet with his spending and us moving house,

    But if you got money to spend, why not spend it and start winning things again? you say youve improved, but Manure and Chelski are the teams winning things and winning things losing more games then they used to, but hey if your happy hanging onto 3rd or 4th and calling that an improvement instead of ACTUALLY winning things, then good for you.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 03:37

    weve been here before dave, so whatever i said last time.
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    Post by BazSpur Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:26

    Every team and player wants to win trophies surely. That is the point of existing in a team. If you asked the players would they like to win trophies I am sure they would say yes, otherwise there is no point. Coming 3rd or 4th every year is not progressing. Surely the ultimate progression is to win the Prem That is what I would be hoping Spurs do. TBH I would be pi**ed off finishing 4th or 3rd every year without having a good tilt at the title. Don't get me wrong I would still take top 4 but surely the top prize is winning trophies.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:45

    of course it is, but what do u do if u dont win trophies, walk away, stopp supporting your team, lol it aint that bad is it, ive seen arsenal win many trophies in my time baz and im sure they will win a few more before i go, its amazing that when yids get on the same level as arsenal for the first time in 15 odd years, your fans think its because we are going backwards lol, the only thing thats backwards is that thinking.
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    Post by BazSpur Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:52

    I don't think you are going backwards TBH but I don't think you are progressing either. The season before last Man U won the Prem Chelsea finished second. This season Chelsea do the double. That's progression for you lol.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:54

    u finished 8th ( i think) last season and u finished 4th this year, dont u think thats progression.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:54

    BazSpur wrote:Every team and player wants to win trophies surely. That is the point of existing in a team. If you asked the players would they like to win trophies I am sure they would say yes, otherwise there is no point. Coming 3rd or 4th every year is not progressing. Surely the ultimate progression is to win the Prem That is what I would be hoping Spurs do. TBH I would be pi**ed off finishing 4th or 3rd every year without having a good tilt at the title. Don't get me wrong I would still take top 4 but surely the top prize is winning trophies.


    I'd take top 6/7 and a tilt at European football the next season along with either the Carling or FA Cup and say thats a great season ! Trouble is there are only a few pieces of silverware to be shared around all the clubs. Top 4 is great as it gives you a go at the Chumps League which so many people now claim to be the Holy Grail. I disagree with that but I suppose I'm a tradishnalist (lol fink I spelt that wrong). Always nice to win a trophy and every competition a team enters they should do their upmost to win it . . . . .
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    Post by BazSpur Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:57

    I agree Vis.
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    Post by BazSpur Tue Jun 15 2010, 05:59

    burger777 wrote:u finished 8th ( i think) last season and u finished 4th this year, dont u think thats progression.

    Well, of course it is because we are in the CL but if we did it again next season it wouldn't be progression would it? It is then called stagnation.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 07:21

    i think most yids would take 4th place next season baz if they were to be honest.
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    Post by BazSpur Tue Jun 15 2010, 07:23

    So would I Burger but it still wouldn't be progression.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 07:32

    but would u consider 3rd as progression.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 08:08

    It seems that you can only progress if you actually win something burg.
    So finishing 7th but winning the CC is an achievment.
    We used to think like that about 20 years ago, don't you remember?
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 08:25

    Mark2spark wrote:It seems that you can only progress if you actually win something burg.
    So finishing 7th but winning the CC is an achievment.
    We used to think like that about 20 years ago, don't you remember?

    Bit of a silly post marky, you havent progressed in the slightest in recent years, in fact man city have progressed more than you have in finishing 5th in the premiership, you lot constantly aspire to higher things but you have made naff all progress against your main antagonists chelsea and man utd, you are still a million miles behind them, you have made no inroads into their superiority over yourselves, they are still 1st and 2nd while you goons go through the motions of 3rd place, and in my opinion you were lucky to get 3rd because we had a few silly glitches during the season like wolves doing the double over us.

    But your benchmark is what you do overall in opposition to chelsea and man utd and you still are no nearer beating them in the prem than you were 5 years back........if as burg says thats progression then so be it, i would say its standing still and spurs and man city progressed a lot more than you goons did last season.
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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 15 2010, 08:57

    Mark2spark wrote:It seems that you can only progress if you actually win something burg.
    So finishing 7th but winning the CC is an achievment.
    We used to think like that about 20 years ago, don't you remember?

    Yet again Mark you move the goalposts to aide an argument. You are obviousley refering to my last post on this thread ! I stand by it as well. There are only 5 major trophies that can be won by English clubs, I do not include Charity sheild, Euro super cup or; is it the club world championship ? These are one-off games of the exhibition variety. The trophies are Premier League, FA Cup, Carling Cup, Chumps League & (these days it's called) Europa League. End of. To win one of these against other Premier teams, all clubs who enter the Cups & European opposistion IS an acheivement. You get nothing for coming 2nd. Unless it's Chumps League then you get it for 4th place, but no trophy to show ! I agree that your team had a better season than last by moving up a league place. As did we we by moving more than a few places upwards. But for awhile now your mob has flitted between top 4 league posistions without winning anything. Do you really feel happy with this ? Has your team moved forward in terms of achievment or has it just been the same ole same ole ? At Spurs we are happy with what our board and management has in place. We are happy with our 1st team squad & what we see happening in the background. We don't see the need for too much tinkering or change as we are confident that the way forwards is in place. The way forwards is upwards. Can you goners say the same ? Are you happy with the squad, management & board ? Truely are you happy with the situation at your club and are you confident that you will move forwards ? Across this board you see posters from Spurs who are happy with the sum of all the parts I have mentioned and the original theme of this thread was would a talent like Joe Cole add to our forwards motion or would he divide a settled, coherent squad ? It's a good time to be of the Nation Of Yid so join in and celebrate with us . . . . . . .

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