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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 02:16

    Redknapp right now is a conundrum: I love him for doing the thing many more loved recent Spurs coaches coudn't do (i.e. get into the CL, end the Arsenal 11 year hoodoo, win at the Emirates etc). However, there are theses naging signs that he reaching that point like Jol did where he becomes stale and runs out of ideas then goes backwards.
    In fact, Harry's greatest strength (his personality and media-charm) might be the major thing that has stopped him being heaped with the similar media/fan pressure that Jol started to get from early 2007 that built and built until the summer and autumn that year.

    I worry because I see a set-up that often doesn't actually seem to be working very hard: how many times have we let in sloppy goals after barely 5 or 10 minutes?
    I know you can say, well a manager can't legislate for X player doing Y, but how many times can this happen before the manager (who is ultimately responsible for football matters) takes the blame? It seems often that planning and due dilligence isn't really a routine part of preparation for a game. Is this why very rarely our tactics are not just "we'll just 'ave a go"?
    I think it's also too easy to talk about it being because King and Woodgate are missing: they were missing for most of last season as well.
    I also wonder if Harry really has the capacity or hard-work ethic to develop players. If you look at the really key personnel in our team, how many were bought by Harry? Ok, so our squad was already
    good and just needed tweaks. But how many of his tweaks have come on AND excelled to much higher levels since playing under Harry?

    Palacious? Was VERY important but has gone backwards, perhaps beyond Harry's control due to his personal tradegy.
    Keane? Defoe? Crouch? All going/gone backwards (at the VERY most sideways).
    Bassong? After a VERY good first season he has gone backwards in a VERY BIG way. Also often seems to really lack due diligence and preparation (remember him not being ready to come on properly at Anfield last season? I'm not going to mention the penalties given away)
    Krancjar? Has he the will or work ethic any more?
    Kaboul? An improvement on his performances from when he first came in 2007, but not sure if he developed since Jan 2010.
    VDV? Time will tell, but he's world class anyway.
    Sandro? Good player but was he signed by Harry anyway?
    Gallas? Probably the same as he ever was; I'm sure Harry bought him in to do the devloping of others.
    Assou-Ekotto stands out as the one person who seems to have had his game really brought on by Harry.

    Harry's man-management should be called into question as well I think. He seems to have his favourites for whom butter wouldn't melt (Defoe, crouch, VDV, Thudd), but woe betide others like Pav, Bent, Bentley, Gio.
    It's far easier to just freeze others out and ridicule them publicly than spend time on them getting their head straight, encouraging them to develop other aspects of their game, etc etc. This goes back to the lazy methodology that I see around our current set-up (which really is not much more than an old-chums network: Ferdinand, Sherwood etc. In fact wasn't Sherwood attacking everything relating to Spurs on Sky/the media before he was appointed? Perhaps appointing him was agood move actually.

    Harry's tactical acumen: apart from last year's game at home against Arsenal how many times have we won a game using our tactics and not just 'having a go' and winning because we had the better players? I know we got a lot of praise in the media for the 3-3 comeback against Arsenal but actually we were set up shockingly in the first place. I had a feeling Harry was going to try the Modric-Huddleston cm pairing that worked last year and I was worringly proved right. This was clearly suicidal seeing at they were obviously going to play 3 CMs and also would have a more potent 3 this time (Cesc, Song were missing last year not to mention Van Persie who only came on in the latter stages of last year's game). Again, lack of due dilligence and planning but we got way with it as Arsenal are a poor shadow of previous teams although Harry's changes afterwards were spit on and we really played well in the second half.
    I wont bother talking about the away games at Young Boys, Inter, Fulham (FA Cup) or Madrid (first 10 mins) where a lack of a plan B is often clear.

    Actual results: put it this way in Spring 2007, how much stick would Jol had taken after no wins against Blackpool, Wolves, West Ham, Wigan or West Brom? NO WINS?

    Harry's fan jibes: whether the fans are being ungrateful or not for what he has achieved, would Mourinho, SAF, Ancelotti, Wenger even Benitez say something openly about 'before I came here, they never had CL football'?? I remember the closest being Wenger in 98 when their fans were complaining about too many draws and he said something like 'when you've been dining on caviar sometimes it hard to go back to ready-meals.' At least that was a bit funny and not as insulting.
    If he going to take credit for wins etc he has to learn to be able to take boos etc on the chin. Shpws a certain classlessness and wanting to pass the buck. Most of his peers would just say nothing, or just say 'we have to continue working hard' etc.

    Transfer polcy: come on Ferdinand? Phil Neville? Beckham (remember all that??), Drogba????? I mean really. Again, smacks of lazy management and not wanting/being able to actually develop players and show real leadership from the top. One of two targets that have experience is one thing but this number is again starting to expose some limitations for me.

    Basically it's the combination of these things that I believe makes people (like myself) wonder if Redknapp has taken us as far as he can. It's no shame to finish 5th but the way in which missing out on 4th is probabaly going to be done leaves a real bitter taste seeing as the current top 4 are nowhere near as dominant in the league as previous top 4 teams were (especially when compared to Jol's time).
    Man city had not won an away game since Boxing until monday so we could and probably should have been in a much better position going into our last 5 games.
    I actually think a bit of litmus test is coming up against Chelsea this weekend. If Harry starts again with a CM of Modric and THudd as part of a 4-4-2, not only are we likely to get battered but it'll show that Harry really doesn't learn from past games or do proper homework and planning to set us up appropraiately for the teams we are playing (especially teams above us in the table). Chelsea will not be as liable to collapsing from a good position like Arsenal.
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 02:17

    what a good post. and nobody mention how bad harry buying policy is.

    oh i found that post on another forum
    BazSpur
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 03:24

    In interest of fairness I will balance the above with a post someone answered with on the same forum.

    And the one-eyed post of the year award goes to......

    Let's go over the highlights:

    If Jol had been sitting in 5th place with an outside chance of 4th in
    early 2007 he probably would have been sacked.
    Oh wait, he was. But he didn't deserve to be. We all know the outcome of his sacking.

    Tactics & work ethic - pure speculation.

    The tweaks:

    Palacios,Keane and Defoe were brought in to battle against relegation. Redknapp
    considered them the best available at that time to do that job. Guess
    what, he was right, we didn't get relegated. Redknapp has taken us
    beyond that now, so we are in need of players with different, more
    progressive qualities.

    Crouch is another player who was brought in to fulfil a specific role, and one which I hope we have moved beyond now.

    There is no evidence that Bassong has gone backwards. He is behind Dawson
    & Gallas in the pecking order (and probably Kaboul also) so he has
    rarely been given a chance. As far as we know he is still a promising
    young centre-back who is still learning his trade.

    Lack of consistency has been a feature of Krancjar's career to date. He may
    never develop the focus to be a regular player in a top side.
    Nevertheless he was a brilliant, cheap, invaluable stop-gap when Modric
    was injured.

    Kaboul is an excellent player who can be expected to
    improve gradually with experience. Redknapp can't sprinkle him with
    magic dust and suddenly turn him into Franco Baresi.

    VDV - What are you on about?
    Sandro - So what?
    Gallas - inspired signing considering the protracted absences of Woodgate & King.

    Holding up Mourinho, SAF, Wenger & Benitez as examples of classy public responses to defeats is hilarious, frankly.

    Your criticism of Redknapp's transfer policy doesn't actually include any players that Redknap has signed, strangely.

    Then we get the old "taken us as far as he can" chestnut. The same
    criticism that was levelled at Jol from some quarters. Please try to
    remember how that fiasco turned out.

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    Post by LOBO Mon May 02 2011, 04:25

    I think that first post proves that there isn't an underlining feeling that everything is fabulous at spurs, a lot of fans are upset and rightly so , when arry came he came with reputation of being a man that could get the job done ina short period of time, he did that living up to his rep , but this season he has got it so wrong, we still more or less have the same players here as last season bar 1 or 2 , so what has gone wrong, i hope we do get another manager, and i know we've been here many times before but i just feel hes not right for Spurs anymore coming out and saying stuff about the england job etc etc , this season has proved he can't repeat last season with a better squad of players, in any other line of business he would get the sack for failure, ok some of you think hes done a good job , but i honestly think you have to put everything aside and say this club comes first .


    Last edited by LOBO on Mon May 02 2011, 04:28; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 04:27

    lobo baz agrees with us but i think hes just dont want to upset ion
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 04:29

    so you think harry is the right man to take us forwaward.

    would you give our potmoney to a many who wantes to go sumwhere else in 2 years.

    crouch robbie keane defoe krankar pinnar waste of money

    wp and galas have been good.

    all that post proves is harry good at getting teams away from relegation
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 05:20

    all that post proves is harry good at getting teams away from relegation

    He got us top 4 though Lought. The only manager who has since we have been in the Prem.........fact.
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 05:34

    What 'arry has done for Spurs deserves the upmost respect & thanks. But is he the manager to take an immenseley talented squad forward ? That remains to be seen . . . . .
    shearspur
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    Post by shearspur Mon May 02 2011, 05:52

    and will only be seen if we keep him at the helm. i cant believe some want to go down the route of changing our manager again so soon, results like yesterdays he cant be held responsible for those poor decisions by the officials. its some of the players who are responsible in other matches where we have fallen short cos on paper most of us would have picked 95% of the teams harry has.this team has more spirit than we have seen for many a year and yes its dissapointing but again we have no divine right to anything. do you really want the merry go round management scenario again, i dont give him time.
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 05:53

    VisionarySound wrote:What 'arry has done for Spurs deserves the upmost respect & thanks. But is he the manager to take an immenseley talented squad forward ? That remains to be seen . . . . .


    Gawd blimey vis, yesterday you were saying out most of the players, now you say they are immensively talented.

    Got your flats mixed up with yer sharps, too twangy a guitar eh vis......... Very Happy only joking mate.

    By the way, great session last night, changed my song title to "you stupid bitch " because aerosmith did "hole in my sole " genuinely years after i did mine with the same title, now i bet google will find a group that did a song called " you stupid bitch "..............such is the life of a musician/songwriter searching for originality.

    Nothing to do with spurs of course but the writing was on the wall many, many games ago, but i have to give it to you lot on here to keep the home fires burning.

    Thing is we aint got man city,s dosh, liverpool nicked carroll from under our noses and beckham wasted our time.

    Now hope springs eternal for 2011/2012.
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 05:54

    Have to wait and see Vis as I can't see him being anywhere else but at Spurs next season.
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 05:57

    yea because our team didnt cost much. its not our fault spurs waste money. everybody new we paid 2 much for bentley and crouch. buyin robbie keane back.

    i bet if you add up the cost of our team its more then man c and liverpool and the goons.

    last season is history. so your telling me harry better then sir bill because thats what the facts show.
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    Post by Guest Mon May 02 2011, 06:01

    BazSpur wrote:Have to wait and see Vis as I can't see him being anywhere else but at Spurs next season.

    Levy knows the score baz, he (harry) couldnt buy his targets for one reason or another, and its time tottenham transfer targets were kept under wraps because both city and liverpool have done us for certain players over the last couple of seasons.
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 06:03

    That's half the problem Lew. We single out targets and other clubs start a bidding war knowing we can't match them.
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    Post by ionman34 Mon May 02 2011, 21:41

    Loughtonlegend wrote:lobo baz agrees with us but i think hes just dont want to upset ion


    Baz has never had a problem with voicing an argument with me if he thnks I'm wrong. That's a cheap shot Lought.


    I've also never seen him kiss the a*se of any poster who happens to agree with his opinions.


    I think we need a 'tongue in cheek' smilie right about now Baz.
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    Post by ionman34 Mon May 02 2011, 21:47


    For the record, excellent riposte find Baz, it wiped the floor with the first post.

    Isn't it amazing how some posters get upset when eve their cut & pastes get found out.

    It's simple really Lought, for every post you can find from some fairweather wannabe, you can find a dozen more that kick the sh*t out of it from proper supporters.

    Ruminate on that one China.
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 23:30

    Thank you ion. There were others that rallied against the first poster but I wasn't going to copy and paste too many of them for posters to wade through. They were saying much the same as the first reply. Nice to know we aren't just voices in the Wilderness Hey?
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    Post by BazSpur Mon May 02 2011, 23:32

    I think we need a 'tongue in cheek' smilie right about now Baz.

    good post 805498 How about a tongue poke at Lought instead lol.
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    Post by Guest Tue May 03 2011, 03:37

    and theres more replys backing the 1st thread. maybe i should dig them out.

    facts or facts. harry has not got the balls to drop vdv.
    he wont try new things.
    how can krankar not get into this team .

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    Post by ionman34 Tue May 03 2011, 14:44

    Loughtonlegend wrote:and theres more replys backing the 1st thread. maybe i should dig them out.

    Fill your boots. Not a single one of them will have any substance which is why they are so easy to dismiss.

    facts or facts. harry has not got the balls to drop vdv.

    That is not a fact, it's an observation. There's a huge difference between the two.

    he wont try new things.

    He's tried new things regularly. Every time he does you're on here caning him for not going back to the 'trusted' 4-4-2.

    Laughable really.



    how can krankar not get into this team .

    Because Bale is better.

    I didn't even need to phone a friend for that one.


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    Post by Guest Wed May 04 2011, 05:15

    Well is here really. krankar come on in 2 games and turnd the game around and scored 2 goals.
    when was the last time bale had a good prem game.

    your telling me he dont derserve to be on the bench after another woefull game aganst chelsea.

    harry goes 442 at home and 451 away aganst top sides.

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