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    Post by totalytot Tue Nov 02 2010, 19:10

    Lets be honest now how many actually believe that we will finish top 4 this year. Before you all rush in and say "of course we will" I want to know on what basis you think we will because I certainly don't.

    I said on here before the season started that our team was not good enough for top honours and I still say so.

    I know we have had injuries but all the top sides have but it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference to their results. I think we have been missing Dawson but Woodgate and King hardly ever play anyway and in Woodgates case never.
    The rest of our defence is very ordinary in my opinion we need two full backs,as Hutton, Corluka and Ekotto are just not good enough. Kaboul is a good odd job man but hardly top class and Bassong has had his chances to shine but looks at times out of his depth.The midfield has been very dissapointing this year. Jenas looked Ok in a couple of games but when it matters he has not been up to it and Lennon seems to stand around most of the time looking like a little boy lost wondering what to do next. He still has to convince that he is not all speed and no imagination and there are to many long periods when he is not involved in the game. Modric on his day is a geat player but he has been dissapointing this season so far and Huddlestone.....everybody's favourite......doesn't do enough in a game to convince me he his is the class player that most on here thik he is. He makes a 40 yard pass and everybody talks about him in the same breath as Hoddle I'm afraid he's no where near that standard. He doesn't score enough goals for one and for another he is not consistent enough with his passing.

    Our strike force is second rate and whilst we are missing Defoe, before his injury he wasn't exactly banging them in regularly was he.
    Bale and VDV are pure class and would walk into any of the top four sides as would a back to form Modric. But the rest of our team in my opinion would not and to me that's the answer the over all side is not a top 4 side.

    I have read on here that on Saturday we matched Utd and could have won. Not the game I watched. We looked good for the first 30 mins and then you had the feeling that they were in control and the second half performance was very poor and we looked like we had surrendered already. I was more dissapointed in that second half performance than any game this season.

    That is my honest opinion on our current side and I'm not just saying it now I posted a similar one to this at the beginning of the season.

    Is the manager to take some of the blame aswell as the players or are we just not good enough to move out Chelsea who I think will win it, Arsenal who sadly are hitting form and I think will finish second and Man U or City. I think we are looking at 5th or 6th at best.

    Lets have some honest replies not Spurs through "Rose colour glasses". If you believe I am talking sh*t tell me but because you really believe it not because you want to believe it.

    Mikey M


    Last edited by totalytot on Tue Nov 02 2010, 23:24; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by YID FROM DAV Tue Nov 02 2010, 19:17

    imo we will finish 5th. chelsea,manu,arsenal and man city in that order will finish top 4.
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    Post by YID FROM DAV Tue Nov 02 2010, 19:18

    great post by the way mike.
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    Post by seebee1944 Tue Nov 02 2010, 22:21



    Excellent assessment Mike (repped) basing my thoughts on how many of Spurs players would get into Chelsea Man Utd Arsenal teams regularly. I reckon 3. when we play at the top of our form we are a match for all but how often do we see that. We never seem to win playing badly like the top teams do. I also have a problem with some of our tactics particularly corners. We must have one of the highest totals gained but very rarely score. I seem to remember a game last season when we had 15 and never came close. So I reckon 6th is the best we can hope unless January brings a couple more top class additions.
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    Post by LOBO Tue Nov 02 2010, 23:14

    Great post mike rept for your troubles mate,and a lot of it i gree with.

    But i believe it boils down to the manner we play .
    we were good enough to finish 4th last year and i think we can do it again this year~

    Redknapp is inexperienced when it comes to top 4 football & CL, yea hes a good manager but still inexperienced at the very top.

    Time will tell if we get top 4 at the moment it dont look like it but there is a long way to go and city have a lot of troubles im hearing thats effecting the team ...we can only benefit


    i think it will come down to us & city for 4th again


    Last edited by LOBO on Wed Nov 03 2010, 00:11; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by cynicsid Wed Nov 03 2010, 00:05

    I think we have a better squad than last season (mainly due to Van de Vaart) but I also think City have too, so it's touch and go for me, could be top 4 but would need a bit of luck along the way.


    I do believe we are going to be one of the forces of the back end of the season as we will have players back from injury that have only played 2/3rds of a season and so should be stronger towards the end. But we need to hang on in there until we are back to full strength.
    It's our strikers that are letting us down, NOT THE DEFENCE. There are only two clubs defending better than us right now but our strike rate is that of relegation fodda.
    WE had a chat on here a short while ago about playing no strikers at all and letting two more midfielders on the pitch for a crack, I think it's time we did just that. Keane is well sussed by the premiership now, Pav is usually in the right place but how many chances does he want and crouch plays with the disadvantage of referee bias "never getting a pen when he should get 3 a match" he gets knocked about all over the place but if he touches an oppo's player it's a foul.

    Can we finish 4th? Yes

    Will we? if Liverpool sort there act out probebly not but I think the premiership would prefur to see us in the top four than City and the refereeing will reflect that.

    Not that I'm a Cynic or anything!!.....................
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    Post by djfitzo Wed Nov 03 2010, 00:56

    Firstly, I believe that its goals for that will see us into 4th place as, outside Chelski our goals against stands up against the best of the rest. Citeh dont score many goals, neither does Liverpool.
    Once Defoe is back, not just for the goals he scores, but for the space he creates in moving defenders away from areas, you will see us score more from all areas. Once we start getting into the nitty,gritty of January onwards, we will have one of the better squads and like last season will make a late push and I think that we can just stay in touch until then, 4th is possible.

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    Post by Guest Wed Nov 03 2010, 02:47

    nice post tots. I dont think we will finish 4th again. harry clearly taken the champions league more seriously. harry dont seem to be using the sqaud that well. gio krankar should be used more
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    Post by ArnieArdiles Wed Nov 03 2010, 03:08

    Nice post Mickey thou I dont agree with this the squad aint good enough ...As Dave says in his above post , defensively we're not that bad its our attack that is falling short ...We have missed Defoe and although true he's not been prolific for us , his movement and pace has always been a worry to our opponents ....

    Ive said since the summer transfer window shut down that we would suffer for not wheeling and dealing our striker options and I believe Levy and the Spurs board sold Harry short on this ... I wouldve liked to have seen us outing Keane and Crouch for say £17million and added £20million to the transfer kitty enabling us to purchase two new strikers of the calibre of say Suarez and Falcao ....
    However, good purchases that they're all we got were Sandro & VDV who's costs are more than covered by the shirt sponsorship deals Levy put together at the start of the season ....There are times when you speculate to accumalate and for us that time was the last transfer window ...

    For me our current problems are all about our strinking options If we had similar or near to the calibre of the striking options that the gooners, Manure and Chelsea have , I believe we could be challenging for the major prizes , certainly the domestic ones ...
    So I'm not into all this putting down our squad , it just needs a spearhead ..
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    Post by YID FROM DAV Wed Nov 03 2010, 03:31

    i think our squad is a bit more short than just a couple of quality strikers, well to win the prem it is. i have doubts about our keeper, we not sure who plays right back from week to week, king means our central pairing will always change, thus meaning we never get the same defence 2 weeks running. is bassong,ekottu,hutton,kaboul good enough in defence, is krankjar,bentley,jenas,ohara good enough in midfield, if not they all should be sold and replaced with better quality. its no time for sitting on what u have, you have to contiually improve in every transfer window. ok harry cant get rid of all them in 1 go but over the next 2 seasons these are the players that need replacing. i think with dawson,bale,lennon,hudd,modric,vdv,defoe,palacious possibly gomes and gallas we have the spine of being a great side, its the rough edges that need smoothing. this post is all about getting a side to win the prem league, not one that is happy with top 6.
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    Post by djfitzo Wed Nov 03 2010, 03:39

    Like I said, our defensive record compares very well, no matter who has played there.

    We did try to offload Keane, but couldnt find a taker to give us the extra to find that special striker, although, looking around I dont see many that are that good or would leave their current clubs for us.

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    Post by ArnieArdiles Wed Nov 03 2010, 04:04

    Yid ,,,,the ever changing central pairing is not ideal granted but some facts from last season ...Our WHL goals against (12) was our best for some 70 years , equal best in the division with ManU.. ...........Chelsea the champions for the season conceeded 32 whilst our total was 41 so I just I dont get this constantly running down our young defenders ....

    The midfield ...I'd agree theres a couple I wouldve like to have seen replaced by now...e.g Bentley & Jenas ...

    As for the strikers ......... Chelsea the current champs and therefore the yardstick .. ...They now have 25 points and we have 15..Okay let's simplify this with a a hypothesis.. We give Chelsea , Crouch & Keane and in exchange we take Drogba & either Anelka or Kalou . . Do you think there would there be an alteration to the current points tally and if so in what way ?
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    Post by YID FROM DAV Wed Nov 03 2010, 04:15

    i think putting drog in anyside would make a difference, but i do see what your getting at and to answer your question i think we would be at least 6 points better off, if its this simple why aint it be done, we have the finance to cover this surely or if not we have the assets to cover it. spurs in the champions league has to be appealling dont it not even for the top players and if it means paying the extra bucks in wages surely its worth the gamble. names dont really spring to mind but im sure they are out there, ps i have no problems with any of our players especially the younger ones just very undecided if spurs can win the title with them in.
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    Post by ArnieArdiles Wed Nov 03 2010, 04:27

    Yid, I can only refer you to my previous post on this thread ....

    Ive said since the summer transfer window shut down that we would suffer for not wheeling and dealing our striker options and I believe Levy and the Spurs board sold Harry short on this ... I wouldve liked to have seen us outing Keane and Crouch for say £17million and added £20million to the transfer kitty enabling us to purchase two new strikers of the calibre of say Suarez and Falcao

    I believe before a team can win the title they have to show they're capable by first going close with a runners-up or 3rd position with say, a six point shortage ...Last season we were 16 points adrift + an inferior goal difference ...This season Levy & the board souldve been looking to close that gap and grow from there ....
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    Post by cynicsid Wed Nov 03 2010, 04:53

    Small point. Did anyone go out and buy a class striker last summer?? Maybee we didn't because their wasn't one available?????
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    Post by Guest Wed Nov 03 2010, 05:58

    Sid you beat me to it. Where are these World class strikers that will take us to the next level ? Who are they ? If they are out there and are for sale at what cost ? We miss Defoe, Pavy ain't quite living up to what we hoped for, Crouchinio is Crouchinio and will never be a 20+ a season striker and Keane just isn't the player (for us) that he was before his Scouse soiree. Maybe it's time to take a chance on a youngster and blood them in gradually or look down the divisions and see whose out there and may just prove to be an unpolished gem (mind we done that with Rasiak and he proved to be an unpolished turd !)? I'm sure if that elusive goal grabber becomes available the club will make an attempt to get them . . . . .
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    Post by cynicsid Wed Nov 03 2010, 06:23

    LOL, Unpolished TurD. !! Smile
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    Post by YID FROM DAV Wed Nov 03 2010, 06:39

    ArnieArdiles wrote:Yid, I can only refer you to my previous post on this thread ....

    Ive said since the summer transfer window shut down that we would suffer for not wheeling and dealing our striker options and I believe Levy and the Spurs board sold Harry short on this ... I wouldve liked to have seen us outing Keane and Crouch for say £17million and added £20million to the transfer kitty enabling us to purchase two new strikers of the calibre of say Suarez and Falcao

    I believe before a team can win the title they have to show they're capable by first going close with a runners-up or 3rd position with say, a six point shortage ...Last season we were 16 points adrift + an inferior goal difference ...This season Levy & the board souldve been looking to close that gap and grow from there ....
    yes patience is the one, i do agree with that but whilst being patient i will still be miffed by what i see at times, in the league i play football(decent standard)there is this stand out team that win the league by 15 points every season, the only reason they dont go up is that there facility aint good enough, steve lomas was there manager 2 seasons ago, anyway everytime we played them our manager would go over the top with formation, he would try and stifle them and catch them on the break he would play 5 at the back, when we allways played 4, he played 1 up top when we always played 2 etc, for the past 3 seasons this team would beat us 2 0 3 1 3 0 etc and we hardly never got out of our half, anyway this season we have another manager who had different ideas when we played them and decided to play 4 3 3, telling us to have a go. and express ourselves, giving us the confidence to have ago. we have played them twice this season, we beat them 2 1 in the league and drew with them 2 2 in the cup losing to them in extra time after being all over them. my point is its not the players im unhappy with, its the mentality when we play the top sides, our formation says we treading carefull from the off, this then translates to the players who become ultra carefull, they seem to be nervous, they tend not to gamble on things they would do in other games, and there game becomes stifled. this aint the tottenham way. we should go at teams in every game, not in a careless way but play with hi tempo, whether we are playing manu of stockport. if this carefull approach worked i would support it, it dont simple as and thats what does my nut in, lol end of rant
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    Post by ionman34 Wed Nov 03 2010, 08:29

    YID FROM DAV wrote:
    ArnieArdiles wrote:Yid, I can only refer you to my previous post on this thread ....

    Ive said since the summer transfer window shut down that we would suffer for not wheeling and dealing our striker options and I believe Levy and the Spurs board sold Harry short on this ... I wouldve liked to have seen us outing Keane and Crouch for say £17million and added £20million to the transfer kitty enabling us to purchase two new strikers of the calibre of say Suarez and Falcao

    I believe before a team can win the title they have to show they're capable by first going close with a runners-up or 3rd position with say, a six point shortage ...Last season we were 16 points adrift + an inferior goal difference ...This season Levy & the board souldve been looking to close that gap and grow from there ....
    yes patience is the one, i do agree with that but whilst being patient i will still be miffed by what i see at times, in the league i play football(decent standard)there is this stand out team that win the league by 15 points every season, the only reason they dont go up is that there facility aint good enough, steve lomas was there manager 2 seasons ago, anyway everytime we played them our manager would go over the top with formation, he would try and stifle them and catch them on the break he would play 5 at the back, when we allways played 4, he played 1 up top when we always played 2 etc, for the past 3 seasons this team would beat us 2 0 3 1 3 0 etc and we hardly never got out of our half, anyway this season we have another manager who had different ideas when we played them and decided to play 4 3 3, telling us to have a go. and express ourselves, giving us the confidence to have ago. we have played them twice this season, we beat them 2 1 in the league and drew with them 2 2 in the cup losing to them in extra time after being all over them. my point is its not the players im unhappy with, its the mentality when we play the top sides, our formation says we treading carefull from the off, this then translates to the players who become ultra carefull, they seem to be nervous, they tend not to gamble on things they would do in other games, and there game becomes stifled. this aint the tottenham way. we should go at teams in every game, not in a careless way but play with hi tempo, whether we are playing manu of stockport. if this carefull approach worked i would support it, it dont simple as and thats what does my nut in, lol end of rant

    Yid, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't with this support. I agree with you totally, about going after other teams and I've seen the complaints after a game where we were away and stood off teams like Utd.

    Now we go to OT, take the game to them and Harry gets hammered again because, according to some, we will get hammered playing such an open game, we have to close Utd down.

    Joisus! It seems that these type of comment only come out after we have lost whereas, if we had won, these self same 'pundits' would be scrambling over each other to tell us just how brilliant they were by suggesting that in the first place.

    Our stats tell the story far more eloquently than anything else. We are top 3 when it comes to defending, we are bottom 3 when it comes to scoring goals. Sort out the strikers, like I've been banging on about all season, and we have a side that can challenge for the title.


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    Post by YID FROM DAV Thu Nov 04 2010, 04:41

    ion we aint beat the top 4 away from home in over 60 games, im happy with our defence im happy with our personel to a point but im not happy that, every time we go to one of the so called top 4s ground we dont win. forget what we do against other teams for a minute and look at that statistic. then tell me that aint an issue. if we want to be amongst them, we have to go there places and win, and win well to send out some messages to others,
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    Post by ionman34 Thu Nov 04 2010, 09:12

    [quote="YID FROM DAV"]ion we aint beat the top 4 away from home in over 60 games, im happy with our defence im happy with our personel to a point but im not happy that, every time we go to one of the so called top 4s ground we dont win.

    It's rare for anyone to go to a top 4 sides ground and win, even another top 4 side, that's why they're top 4 mate. It's only in recent years that Chelsea have managed to go to OT and get some wins.

    Did you know that the goons away record, against other top 4, is pretty terrible as well? Winning the league isn't about beating the teams around you on their own patch, it's about winning more points than them. Full stop. We are now WORKING TOWARDS the higher echelons and are not established just yet so being concerned about that little bit of trivia is, IMO, focussing on the wrong objective.


    forget what we do against other teams for a minute and look at that statistic. then tell me that aint an issue.

    OK. It ain't an issue. We lose at their place, they lose at our place, that gives us parity. Then it's all about how we do against the other teams. That's 15 other teams to put together enough points for a title tilt.

    See what I'm getting at? Winning away to top 4 is a luxury. They're not top 4 for nothing. They win and lose against each other all the time, but it is the points gained against the other teams that decides the title races.


    if we want to be amongst them, we have to go there places and win, and win well to send out some messages to others

    I don't disagree with that Yid, having teams worried before you play them is a the first step to beating them, they're partly defeated before you've kicked a ball. All you have to do is lean on them a bit.

    It doesn't happen overnight though mate and you have to break that mental handicap that you have yourself. We've done it at home to Chelsea and the goons, I believe we'll do it this year against Utd and, eventually, we'll do it at their place too.

    But this expectation that you have of us going away to, let's face it, 3 of the best teams in Europe and turning them over. Come on mate, be realistic. Look for a win sure, but expect one?

    What I saw at Utd was a team that went looking for the win and lacked the firepower to do it. That can be fixed. Even without the firepower they still needed a dodgy ref to keep them comfortable.

    It's not the first time Clattenburg has done that for them either is it? Ask Pedro Mendes!

    Our time is coming, don't rush it.
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    Post by Guest Thu Nov 04 2010, 09:44

    Superb post Ion. Rep . . . . ..
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    Post by ionman34 Thu Nov 04 2010, 09:58

    Thx Vis.
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    Post by philip Thu Nov 04 2010, 10:52

    djfitzo wrote:Like I said, our defensive record compares very well, no matter who has played there.

    We did try to offload Keane, but couldnt find a taker to give us the extra to find that special striker, although, looking around I dont see many that are that good or would leave their current clubs for us.


    I think St cruiz of Man city will do
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    Post by totalytot Thu Nov 04 2010, 21:13

    [quote="ionman34"]
    YID FROM DAV wrote:ion we aint beat the top 4 away from home in over 60 games, im happy with our defence im happy with our personel to a point but im not happy that, every time we go to one of the so called top 4s ground we dont win.

    It's rare for anyone to go to a top 4 sides ground and win, even another top 4 side, that's why they're top 4 mate. It's only in recent years that Chelsea have managed to go to OT and get some wins.

    Did you know that the goons away record, against other top 4, is pretty terrible as well? Winning the league isn't about beating the teams around you on their own patch, it's about winning more points than them. Full stop. We are now WORKING TOWARDS the higher echelons and are not established just yet so being concerned about that little bit of trivia is, IMO, focussing on the wrong objective.


    forget what we do against other teams for a minute and look at that statistic. then tell me that aint an issue.

    OK. It ain't an issue. We lose at their place, they lose at our place, that gives us parity. Then it's all about how we do against the other teams. That's 15 other teams to put together enough points for a title tilt.

    See what I'm getting at? Winning away to top 4 is a luxury. They're not top 4 for nothing. They win and lose against each other all the time, but it is the points gained against the other teams that decides the title races.


    if we want to be amongst them, we have to go there places and win, and win well to send out some messages to others

    I don't disagree with that Yid, having teams worried before you play them is a the first step to beating them, they're partly defeated before you've kicked a ball. All you have to do is lean on them a bit.

    It doesn't happen overnight though mate and you have to break that mental handicap that you have yourself. We've done it at home to Chelsea and the goons, I believe we'll do it this year against Utd and, eventually, we'll do it at their place too.

    But this expectation that you have of us going away to, let's face it, 3 of the best teams in Europe and turning them over. Come on mate, be realistic. Look for a win sure, but expect one?

    What I saw at Utd was a team that went looking for the win and lacked the firepower to do it. That can be fixed. Even without the firepower they still needed a dodgy ref to keep them comfortable.

    It's not the first time Clattenburg has done that for them either is it? Ask Pedro Mendes!

    Our time is coming, don't rush it.

    That all makes sense Ion if we were beating the other 15 teams on a regular basis but we we are consistently dropping silly points to teams that on paper we should be taking comfortably. So something is wrong somewhere is it not.
    If we could play like we did on Tuesday against the top prem teams or in fact any prem teams we would win the league no problem.



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