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    FAO ION !

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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 02:27

    Ok ion, just a small explanation that the debate about kaboul got a bit fiery because i get fed up with being picked up on a mere assessment of a player.
    The point is that i dont rate kaboul at right back, my main argument is that he didnt chase back after being brushed aside by chelsea attackers and he looks quite weak in that position.....and thats my opinion.

    Now wouldnt it be nicer for you to come on and say "well actually i think you have it wrong " "and that you actually rate the player " etc etc........................but no ion you want to grind my opinion into the ground by bringing in this spurs player, and this position , and this and that...................etc etc. going all round the sodding houses to prove your point .

    The post was all about kaboul, you went onto mention, bale. modric, bentley pav and uncle tom cobbley and all , in a futile attempt to trash my opinion, which incidently remains the same.

    Yeah i got a little insulting because this is what you do, dissect a post to bits, but what made it for me was that you actually claim the argument has been won saying that baz vis and others agree.........well ion i havent mentioned other posters on here that actually agree with me, i could do but why ! my right is to my opinion, i dont need to drop names to back up what i believe is true.

    At the end of the day it isnt a big deal, an opinion is an opinion, and thats all, lought doesnt rate many a spurs player, jim doesnt rate o,hara, the list is endless, for us to make a big deal out of someones opinion is childish to me.
    But back to the ekotto bale argument !
    whatever you say ion, bale is at left midfield because thats a spot where we lack creativity, and thats the reason why ekotto is still at left back....and ! if i was harry thats exactly what i would have done, in fact i have posted that bale left wing.....lennon right wing........what a brilliant two pronged attack, i have even put my preferred spurs team down a few times with ekotto at left back and bale on the wing..............but i know if we had a natural left winger then bale would be at left back and ekotto bench warming..............hell.! sh-te ! and damn it...no i dont mean i dont rate ekotto i just think bale is better.

    Its ok mate, its just a forum........ FAO ION ! Icon_sunny
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    Post by BazSpur Wed Apr 21 2010, 03:02

    Lew, stick to what you believe, its your right. I know Ion rates Crouch but it won't stop me from saying what I think of Crouch. I never wanted him and apart from coming off the bench as an impact player I think he has limited value but thats my opinion. I liked O'Hara and Jim ddn't thats his opinion and he stuck to it.
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 03:22

    maybe ion was a bit confused why any spurs fan is negative about anything at the moment when your having your best season in years especially when the lad u are on about aint first team, was playing out of position and played in 2 winning teams against arguably 2 of the best 3 teams in the country. actually forget ion being confused, that one has me thinking abit, but we all know why dont we lew.
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    Post by BazSpur Wed Apr 21 2010, 03:29

    but we all know why dont we lew.

    No, do tell Burger.
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 03:32

    i cant think of the word i am looking for baz,
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    Post by BazSpur Wed Apr 21 2010, 04:08

    FAO ION ! Lol
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 04:46

    [quote="burger777"]maybe ion was a bit confused why any spurs fan is negative about anything at the moment when your having your best season in years especially when the lad u are on about aint first team, was playing out of position and played in 2 winning teams against arguably 2 of the best 3 teams in the country. actually forget ion being confused, that one has me thinking abit, but we all know why dont we lew.....................enlighten me as to this minor miracle of a brain wave you have experienced burg ? what do we all know ?

    Listen burg i know you want to be ionmans bum buddy by sucking up to the psycho but remember you are a goon, and ion is a yid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they dont mix son.

    You have always taken ions side against anyone on here because you think he is the most powerful...he isnt mate, i regard posters like len and arnie of more importance.

    Now are you still confused ?
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 05:01

    very.
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    Post by spurslegend Wed Apr 21 2010, 05:49

    thats why you live on a spurs site your confused
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 06:09

    lol.
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 10:17

    i have to say lew you do seem to be getting a bit personal wiv lon. like jim said if everybody agreed with everyone then this place would be boring. and i do think lonman is a good poster even if i dont always agree with him
    ionman34
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    Post by ionman34 Wed Apr 21 2010, 11:35

    [quote="lewspurs"]Ok ion, just a small explanation that the debate about kaboul got a bit fiery because i get fed up with being picked up on a mere assessment of a player.
    The point is that i dont rate kaboul at right back, my main argument is that he didnt chase back after being brushed aside by chelsea attackers and he looks quite weak in that position.....and thats my opinion.

    I understand that Lew. What I don't understand is you taking umbrage at me arguing against that. More to the point, I can't understand how it is you lost the plot because I offered reasons for why you are wrong, you still haven't addressed those points but, instead, engaged in insulting me and attempting to get the board to ostracise me.

    All I did was question your opinion and you went off. Has it now come to the point where no one is allowed to argue when they have a difference of opinion? Providing a strong argument is now classed as 'bullying?'


    Now wouldnt it be nicer for you to come on and say "well actually i think you have it wrong " "and that you actually rate the player " etc etc........................but no ion you want to grind my opinion into the ground by bringing in this spurs player, and this position , and this and that...................etc etc. going all round the sodding houses to prove your point .

    That's the point of a debate Lew, proving your point. I've said it on here many a time before, argument is education. If someone has a better argument than you then, provided you are open minded enough to realise it, you are educated. I have asked repeatedly for you to back up your claim and, to date, you really haven't. To back my point I've referenced other players as comparisons. This gives weight to my argument. All you've done is complain that I've gone off the point when, in fact, I've reinforced it.


    The post was all about kaboul, you went onto mention, bale. modric, bentley pav and uncle tom cobbley and all , in a futile attempt to trash my opinion, which incidently remains the same.

    Only futile if you are totally unreceptive to a counterargument, which you have made it abundantly clear is exactly your stance. You still haven't backed up your argument so it seems that maintaining your stance is nothing more than petulance when faced with the argument I've put forth.

    Please mate, offer me that counterargument. Give me the opportunity to concede that you are correct and I am wrong. If you can't then how about you do the same for me rather than give out the lame, halfwitted insults or the fingers in the ears 'la, la, la, I'm not listening' responses I've had to date.


    Yeah i got a little insulting because this is what you do, dissect a post to bits

    How is dissecting a post insulting for Christs sake?

    I answered each of the points you made. That is a courtesy in that I have read and digested your post, given it the thought it deserves and countered it in each point. That is debate, that is the art of argument.

    but what made it for me was that you actually claim the argument has been won saying that baz vis and others agree

    No mate. Baz, Vis and others agreed that I had put my point across meticulously, I never said that they agreed I'd won the argument. I claimed that mine was the better argument because, up until now, it has been the only one offered. Insult and evasion are all that has come from you.

    .........well ion i havent mentioned other posters on here that actually agree with me, i could do but why ! my right is to my opinion, i dont need to drop names to back up what i believe is true.

    No, but facts would help. So far you've been awfully light in that area.


    At the end of the day it isnt a big deal, an opinion is an opinion, and thats all, lought doesnt rate many a spurs player, jim doesnt rate o,hara, the list is endless, for us to make a big deal out of someones opinion is childish to me.

    I agree Lew, so why did you make such a fuss about me offering mine? Why get so up in arms when I back it? Why insult me incessantly instead of doing the Adult thing and get stuck into the argument and enjoy it as much as I do? It's not personal, I'm not here to make people I regard as friends look ridiculous. I argue all the time with friends off line because I, and they, regard it as fun. Yes it gets heated at times but it never results in blows or insults. Actually the insults do fly but it's normally with a smile on the face and it's invariably a way for the insulter to accede with good grace.

    I'll do you a deal. After having read some of the posts on my 'posting style' I promise to 'rein in' some of the more abrasive comments. In return can you, and some of your other 'brethren' try to accept that this isn't a Pi**ing contest, I'm not here to belittle posters, I'm merely speaking up against the tendency of some to pick out their favourite 'whipping boy' regardless of how well that player performs.

    You hate this fickle tag but no one hates it more than I do and that is why I am so vehement in my defence of these players. I see a great team performance, from the ENTIRE team, then come on here to find yet another unfancied player getting caned. I can't see where he has gone wrong in any way worse than any other player on the pitch so I post that and back it.

    Because of my support I get labelled a bully because my argument is a good one. Instead of being answered with a counterargument I get insulted. I have you stating that you want to 'verbally spar' with me which basically reinforces that you want to leave the subject matter and engage in an insult contest.

    Am I supposed to dumb down my ability to argue just so no one else feels intimidated?

    What kind of prejudice is that?

    I've been accused of being in a clique, that every time I post I'm backed by the clique and yet the only time I get backed is after I get insulted, once again after putting a good argument across.

    Now I have you and others on here totally avoiding the issue just to take a shot at me personally. All because I argue well.

    Who's integrity does that bring into question? Certainly not mine.

    But back to the ekotto bale argument !
    whatever you say ion, bale is at left midfield because thats a spot where we lack creativity

    I take you back to earlier in the season when Modric was out on the left, prior to him breaking his leg. The entire board, and every other Spurs fan besides, was waxing lyrical about how suprbly he was playing in that position, how our left sided issues were now over. His leg is broken by the Rat and everyone is seriously concerned about the loss of his creativity.
    Nico comes in and is a revelation. Plays superbly and alleviates all our fears because he too offers creativity, and a bit of Steel, on the left side. Our concerns then switch to the right because Lennon is crocked.
    Ekotto is then injured and Bale is drafted in. There are some concerns because he was dire in the early season and he's still carrying this 'jinx' millstone around his neck. He soon blows that out of the water because he suddenly looks like we've just weighed out on a World Class player. All of a sudden Modric and Ekotto are fit again. Modric was superb on the left and so was Ekotto. However, Bale is uprooting trees so who has to move? Were Ekotto keeping Bale's seat warm then it's a no brainer. He gets dropped, Bale goes to left back and Modric returns to the position that he was creating havok from early season. But that doesn't happen. Ekotto retains his place, Bale is pushed forward and Modric is moved because Bale can do more damage down the left whilst Modric has the ability to roam thus increasing our creative options.

    and thats the reason why ekotto is still at left back

    See above.

    ....and ! if i was harry thats exactly what i would have done, in fact i have posted that bale left wing.....lennon right wing........what a brilliant two pronged attack, i have even put my preferred spurs team down a few times with ekotto at left back and bale on the wing..............but i know if we had a natural left winger then bale would be at left back and ekotto bench warming..............hell.! sh-te ! and damn it...no i dont mean i dont rate ekotto i just think bale is better.

    Having seen Bale's performances on the wing I'm gobsmacked that you don't believe he is a natural winger. He's predominantly left footed and is currently skinning fullbacks for fun. His preferred avenue is to hit the bye line and cross. Everything that a winger is supposed to do and this lad, considering his age, is doing it instinctively.

    I'd say he's a born left winger.


    Its ok mate, its just a forum........ FAO ION ! Icon_sunny

    LOL. I've been saying this all along Lew, it's not personal, you know damned well that I have never insulted anyone on here or any other board until they fire one at me first, even then I use them more as a P*ss take than to really get nasty.

    In a nutshell you did what others on here have done, misunderstood a forceful argument and took it as a personal attack. In all the years you've known me have you ever known me to initiate a personal attack on anyone?

    My pleasure is the exchange of views, the cut and thrust of the argument. Please bear that in mind the next time we cross swords, and we will mate.
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    Post by ionman34 Wed Apr 21 2010, 11:38

    [quote="Loughtonlegend"]i have to say lew you do seem to be getting a bit personal wiv lon. like jim said if everybody agreed with everyone then this place would be boring. and i do think lonman is a good poster even if i dont always agree with him

    Thank you Lought.

    Don't worry about me and Lew though, we'll iron this out. I think we like each other too much to let this fester any further.

    Besides, he wouldn't want me to come around his house and boil the dogs down for soup stock hey?


    I am a psycho after all ...................... Allegedly. FAO ION ! Lol
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    Post by tressman1 Wed Apr 21 2010, 13:05

    See you haven't taken the meds this Morning yet !!!!!!! FAO ION ! 145798
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 17:48

    [quote="ionman34"][quote="lewspurs"]Ok ion, just a small explanation that the debate about kaboul got a bit fiery because i get fed up with being picked up on a mere assessment of a player.
    The point is that i dont rate kaboul at right back, my main argument is that he didnt chase back after being brushed aside by chelsea attackers and he looks quite weak in that position.....and thats my opinion.

    I understand that Lew. What I don't understand is you taking umbrage at me arguing against that. More to the point, I can't understand how it is you lost the plot because I offered reasons for why you are wrong, you still haven't addressed those points but, instead, engaged in insulting me and attempting to get the board to ostracise me.
    For a start ion i dont think i am wrong about kaboul, but only time will tell if he continues in the right back slot, he will be found out in away games and we will then hear exactly what i am saying now, but because i have the guts to stand up and say it first i am asked to slug it out over a litany of a debate that goes off in many directions before we stand there with just one mans opinion (that i dont rate kaboul at full back ) ok so you asked for an explanation so i will say that by making that statement it doesnt mean i dont rate kaboul, in fact my opinion of him is static..........i saw what i saw in the chelsea game and said what i said and stand by it.
    As for ostracising you ! this board loves you mate, they have a million times more respect for you then they would ever have for me because of your command of the olde gift of the gab.

    All I did was question your opinion and you went off. Has it now come to the point where no one is allowed to argue when they have a difference of opinion? Providing a strong argument is now classed as 'bullying?'
    It wasnt that controversial a statement to warrant a bible amount of work as you did in your reply, for example the bloke is playing in what is a foreign position for him...he is therefore forgiven any cocks ups he might make, but it was your opening gambit that hit a wrong chord for me............Forgive me if it isnt word for word as i havent got time to go back to your original answer) " i am fed up with people knocking our players " funny that ion is it not, you are questioning that has it come to the point where no one is allowed to argue but ! then you come out with a statement that " you are fed up with etc etc "so now its getting to the point where we cannot have a go at a spurs player because you are fed up with it, ion take the log out of your own eye.............................etc etc


    Now wouldnt it be nicer for you to come on and say "well actually i think you have it wrong " "and that you actually rate the player " etc etc........................but no ion you want to grind my opinion into the ground by bringing in this spurs player, and this position , and this and that...................etc etc. going all round the sodding houses to prove your point .

    That's the point of a debate Lew, proving your point. I've said it on here many a time before, argument is education. If someone has a better argument than you then, provided you are open minded enough to realise it, you are educated. I have asked repeatedly for you to back up your claim and, to date, you really haven't. To back my point I've referenced other players as comparisons. This gives weight to my argument. All you've done is complain that I've gone off the point when, in fact, I've reinforced it.

    Ion ! why do you seem to miss the point time and time again over this subject of kaboul ! i didnt want to go into this reason and that reason to justify what i said because i had already done that in the original thread,..................i said and i repeat " kaboul is dodgy at right back because.......i saw him beaten a couple of times and didnt chase back, what more do i need to add to that ? its as plain as plain could be, now he may have been beaten more than twice, so that point is debatable but what i saw was him being easily brushed aside by chelsea attackers and not chasing back, daws and co were left with the dirty work to do.



    The post was all about kaboul, you went onto mention, bale. modric, bentley pav and uncle tom cobbley and all , in a futile attempt to trash my opinion, which incidently remains the same.

    Only futile if you are totally unreceptive to a counterargument, which you have made it abundantly clear is exactly your stance. You still haven't backed up your argument so it seems that maintaining your stance is nothing more than petulance when faced with the argument I've put forth.

    Because it isnt applicable ion ! lets get this straight now ! let me explain ............
    I think you realise by now that i can engage in debate on here to a very high standard, i am an educated person and can verbalise well with most people i meet, so i will say that i dont need to back up what i have already explained in the original thread ! why ? its childish.
    As for petulance ? you have to call it what you will ion, i call it "explanation not needed because it has already been backed up in the title thread " to go through it and debate it is silly because it isnt that controversial to warrant such a forum dissection.


    Please mate, offer me that counterargument. Give me the opportunity to concede that you are correct and I am wrong. If you can't then how about you do the same for me rather than give out the lame, halfwitted insults or the fingers in the ears 'la, la, la, I'm not listening' responses I've had to date.

    Why is it such a big thing to you ion ! it is one mans opinion of a spurs player, why do you feel the need to write chapter upon litany in explaining your counter assessment of the player.



    Yeah i got a little insulting because this is what you do, dissect a post to bits

    How is dissecting a post insulting for Christs sake?

    I answered each of the points you made. That is a courtesy in that I have read and digested your post, given it the thought it deserves and countered it in each point. That is debate, that is the art of argument.

    No ion what you did was chafe at the bit for an argument you thought you would win easily by pulling the original thread apart through debate that i have to admit you are very good at, in this case i wasnt offering you the chance , because your opening bowshot smacked of " how dare you criticise a spurs player " (i am fed up etc etc ) but i will say that its my right as a free thinking individual , there are critics in all walks of life not just football, people in the public eye are open to both praise and criticism, so for you to tell me " you are fed up " sheeesssh mate well keep staying fed up because i will criticise when i feel like doing it....thanks.


    but what made it for me was that you actually claim the argument has been won saying that baz vis and others agree

    No mate. Baz, Vis and others agreed that I had put my point across meticulously, I never said that they agreed I'd won the argument. I claimed that mine was the better argument because, up until now, it has been the only one offered. Insult and evasion are all that has come from you.

    Well there you are then ion ! you have won again, baz and vis can double up your rep points for you. FAO ION ! Lol


    .........well ion i havent mentioned other posters on here that actually agree with me, i could do but why ! my right is to my opinion, i dont need to drop names to back up what i believe is true.

    No, but facts would help. So far you've been awfully light in that area.

    I refer the right honourable gentleman to earlier statements in this tread.



    At the end of the day it isnt a big deal, an opinion is an opinion, and thats all, lought doesnt rate many a spurs player, jim doesnt rate o,hara, the list is endless, for us to make a big deal out of someones opinion is childish to me.

    I agree Lew, so why did you make such a fuss about me offering mine? Why get so up in arms when I back it? Why insult me incessantly instead of doing the Adult thing and get stuck into the argument and enjoy it as much as I do? It's not personal, I'm not here to make people I regard as friends look ridiculous. I argue all the time with friends off line because I, and they, regard it as fun. Yes it gets heated at times but it never results in blows or insults. Actually the insults do fly but it's normally with a smile on the face and it's invariably a way for the insulter to accede with good grace.

    Well ion i have seen you pull lought apart, i saw the tress thing, going back i have seen others made to look silly by you, and all i am saying is that " i dont rate kaboul at right back " FAO ION ! Lol it isnt a massive statement ! its an observation by myself, FAO ION ! Sleep you wanted to turn it into a debate when i personally dont regard it as that controversial, but i knew you would get hold of it like a little jack russell and wouldnt let go until you had felt you had proved the statement wrong.
    Ion, sometimes a little servility goes a long way, why not just add to the post by saying something like "yeah lew agree but he could improve " not " i am fed up with..."


    I'll do you a deal. After having read some of the posts on my 'posting style' I promise to 'rein in' some of the more abrasive comments. In return can you, and some of your other 'brethren' try to accept that this isn't a Pi**ing contest, I'm not here to belittle posters, I'm merely speaking up against the tendency of some to pick out their favourite 'whipping boy' regardless of how well that player performs.

    Accepted ion ! never regarded it as a contest anyway, and as for whipping boys, ion these players get millions per year, the fans are entitled to their say , not in the white hart lane boo boys style but they are entitled to knock a player if they so desire............tell jim he cant call o,hara a no necked muppet ! FAO ION ! Lol


    You hate this fickle tag but no one hates it more than I do and that is why I am so vehement in my defence of these players. I see a great team performance, from the ENTIRE team, then come on here to find yet another unfancied player getting caned. I can't see where he has gone wrong in any way worse than any other player on the pitch so I post that and back it.

    Because of my support I get labelled a bully because my argument is a good one. Instead of being answered with a counterargument I get insulted. I have you stating that you want to 'verbally spar' with me which basically reinforces that you want to leave the subject matter and engage in an insult contest.

    Not at all ion ! you are well regarded on here and many dont cross swords with you, i am not afraid to do so, as for insults lots will tell you on here that mainly only burger and myself have gotten into that scene on this new forum, by verbally sparring i meant i will give as good as i get , and that would be without resorting to insults.


    Am I supposed to dumb down my ability to argue just so no one else feels intimidated?

    What kind of prejudice is that?

    I've been accused of being in a clique, that every time I post I'm backed by the clique and yet the only time I get backed is after I get insulted, once again after putting a good argument across.

    I cant speak for others on here ! i saw the conflab between you and baz and tress, i would say baz is right that you do have a tendency to not just argue the point but to actually grind the other person into the ground............i dont want baz to come on here and say i have quoted him wrong but i believe he said that " people are entitled to their opinions" for someone like yourself to come on and batter that opinion into the ground could put people off of posting ..............ion believe me mate when i say that i have scrubbed some of my posts out because i knew you would be down on them like a ton of bricks, and i just wasnt in the mood (at that time )to confront you if you did, ....... if i feel like that knowing that i can stand up to you how do you think others feel on here that are not as confident ?


    Now I have you and others on here totally avoiding the issue just to take a shot at me personally. All because I argue well.

    Who's integrity does that bring into question? Certainly not mine.

    Yeah so you argue well, but argue well without making people believe their opinion is sh-te ! encourage people to want to come on here not scare them off because you are good or better than them in that department............i reckon you should be a lawyer ion, charles manson might be a free man now if you had taken the case FAO ION ! Lol


    But back to the ekotto bale argument !
    whatever you say ion, bale is at left midfield because thats a spot where we lack creativity

    I take you back to earlier in the season when Modric was out on the left, prior to him breaking his leg. The entire board, and every other Spurs fan besides, was waxing lyrical about how suprbly he was playing in that position, how our left sided issues were now over. His leg is broken by the Rat and everyone is seriously concerned about the loss of his creativity.
    Nico comes in and is a revelation. Plays superbly and alleviates all our fears because he too offers creativity, and a bit of Steel, on the left side. Our concerns then switch to the right because Lennon is crocked.
    Ekotto is then injured and Bale is drafted in. There are some concerns because he was dire in the early season and he's still carrying this 'jinx' millstone around his neck. He soon blows that out of the water because he suddenly looks like we've just weighed out on a World Class player. All of a sudden Modric and Ekotto are fit again. Modric was superb on the left and so was Ekotto. However, Bale is uprooting trees so who has to move? Were Ekotto keeping Bale's seat warm then it's a no brainer. He gets dropped, Bale goes to left back and Modric returns to the position that he was creating havok from early season. But that doesn't happen. Ekotto retains his place, Bale is pushed forward and Modric is moved because Bale can do more damage down the left whilst Modric has the ability to roam thus increasing our creative options.

    and thats the reason why ekotto is still at left back

    See above.

    ....and ! if i was harry thats exactly what i would have done, in fact i have posted that bale left wing.....lennon right wing........what a brilliant two pronged attack, i have even put my preferred spurs team down a few times with ekotto at left back and bale on the wing..............but i know if we had a natural left winger then bale would be at left back and ekotto bench warming..............hell.! sh-te ! and damn it...no i dont mean i dont rate ekotto i just think bale is better.

    Having seen Bale's performances on the wing I'm gobsmacked that you don't believe he is a natural winger. He's predominantly left footed and is currently skinning fullbacks for fun. His preferred avenue is to hit the bye line and cross. Everything that a winger is supposed to do and this lad, considering his age, is doing it instinctively.

    I'd say he's a born left winger.

    I actually agree with this ion, arnie put me in doubt when he said that bale is better coming from the back marauding forward, but i have always said he is our answer to the left wing problem, i said that when we first bought him and believed it all along, so i am not going to argue over something i have already argued with others on here about.............he is a left winger imho.



    Its ok mate, its just a forum........ FAO ION ! Icon_sunny

    LOL. I've been saying this all along Lew, it's not personal, you know damned well that I have never insulted anyone on here or any other board until they fire one at me first, even then I use them more as a P*ss take than to really get nasty.

    In a nutshell you did what others on here have done, misunderstood a forceful argument and took it as a personal attack. In all the years you've known me have you ever known me to initiate a personal attack on anyone?

    My pleasure is the exchange of views, the cut and thrust of the argument. Please bear that in mind the next time we cross swords, and we will mate.

    I look forward to it ion, i realise that you like a good debate, and make no mistakes i will be there sometimes to keep you up to scratch. FAO ION ! 959550
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 18:19

    getting personal,rounding the troops up,insults and starting posts with your name on, thank fcuk someone else is experiencing it lol.
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    Post by tressman1 Wed Apr 21 2010, 18:25

    Priceless Lew, Priceless
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 18:48

    burger777 wrote:getting personal,rounding the troops up,insults and starting posts with your name on, thank fcuk someone else is experiencing it lol.

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh ! go away ! FAO ION ! Sleep
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    Post by ionman34 Wed Apr 21 2010, 21:16

    [quote="lewspurs"][quote="ionman34"][quote="lewspurs"]Ok ion, just a small explanation that the debate about kaboul got a bit fiery because i get fed up with being picked up on a mere assessment of a player.
    The point is that i dont rate kaboul at right back, my main argument is that he didnt chase back after being brushed aside by chelsea attackers and he looks quite weak in that position.....and thats my opinion.

    I understand that Lew. What I don't understand is you taking umbrage at me arguing against that. More to the point, I can't understand how it is you lost the plot because I offered reasons for why you are wrong, you still haven't addressed those points but, instead, engaged in insulting me and attempting to get the board to ostracise me.
    For a start ion i dont think i am wrong about kaboul, but only time will tell if he continues in the right back slot, he will be found out in away games and we will then hear exactly what i am saying now

    Possibly mate but, in the interim, he has given no cause for this belief. He has played very well and should receive that recognition.

    but because i have the guts to stand up and say it first i am asked to slug it out over a litany of a debate that goes off in many directions

    What do you need to have 'guts' for Lew? You're a poster who I respect and enjoy a debate with. I am well aware that you are able to hold your own end of an argument which is why I have these little tete-a-tete's with you. There's not much entertainment in an argument with a halfwit illiterate .............. That's why I ignore him now FAO ION ! Lol

    That is also the reason I couldn't understand you going off. It's not like it's the first time we've had a difference of opinion is it? You've never reacted in that way before though.

    before we stand there with just one mans opinion (that i dont rate kaboul at full back ) ok so you asked for an explanation so i will say that by making that statement it doesnt mean i dont rate kaboul, in fact my opinion of him is static

    Well, actually you rated him as 'dodgy' but I'm not going there any more. FAO ION ! Icon_biggrin

    ..........i saw what i saw in the chelsea game and said what i said and stand by it.

    We've done that one to death now Lew. You obviously won't see my argument so no point in going over old ground.

    As for ostracising you ! this board loves you mate, they have a million times more respect for you then they would ever have for me because of your command of the olde gift of the gab.

    This board is populated, in the vast majority, by people I regard as friends. I've never met a single one of you but I've known most for close to what? 8 years? You amongst them.
    And like friends do we often fight amongst ourselves over a difference of opinion. But as I keep saying, it's not personal, anyone who holds grudges on here over a difference of opinion is, to my mind, a fool of the highest order.

    All I did was question your opinion and you went off. Has it now come to the point where no one is allowed to argue when they have a difference of opinion? Providing a strong argument is now classed as 'bullying?'
    It wasnt that controversial a statement to warrant a bible amount of work as you did in your reply

    Oh come on mate, I'm long winded. That much has NEVER changed in the 8 years I've been posting. Some enjoy the read, some want to skim. I like to write and, as I said previously, I extend the courtesy of giving your post a full read and full answer.

    for example the bloke is playing in what is a foreign position for him...he is therefore forgiven any cocks ups he might make, but it was your opening gambit that hit a wrong chord for me............Forgive me if it isnt word for word as i havent got time to go back to your original answer) " i am fed up with people knocking our players "

    That was the third or fourth paragraph Lew but I get your drift.

    funny that ion is it not, you are questioning that has it come to the point where no one is allowed to argue but ! then you come out with a statement that " you are fed up with etc etc "so now its getting to the point where we cannot have a go at a spurs player because you are fed up with it, ion take the log out of your own eye.............................etc etc

    OK Lew, I get where you're coming from but consider the reasoning I put down to explain my frustration. YOU'RE opening gambit was 'Khaboul is well dodgy at right back' (not verbatim either) and your reasoning consisted of 3 instants in the game.

    Let me put it this way, and I'll use Bale as the example again. Bale has a cracking game, you go onto the forum to see me claiming he's 'dodgy' in the position he's playing because I saw him make 3 mistakes.
    You then reply with 'what about the great attacking runs and all the other good things he did in the game'

    And I ignore you, continuing to slate him despite copious evidence being provided to the contrary. Throwing a few insults along the way.

    Are you gonna give me the thumbs up and an 'I respect your opinion mate' post?

    Not while you have a hole in your a*se!! FAO ION ! Lol



    Now wouldnt it be nicer for you to come on and say "well actually i think you have it wrong " "and that you actually rate the player " etc etc........................but no ion you want to grind my opinion into the ground by bringing in this spurs player, and this position , and this and that...................etc etc. going all round the sodding houses to prove your point .

    That's the point of a debate Lew, proving your point. I've said it on here many a time before, argument is education. If someone has a better argument than you then, provided you are open minded enough to realise it, you are educated. I have asked repeatedly for you to back up your claim and, to date, you really haven't. To back my point I've referenced other players as comparisons. This gives weight to my argument. All you've done is complain that I've gone off the point when, in fact, I've reinforced it.

    Ion ! why do you seem to miss the point time and time again over this subject of kaboul ! i didnt want to go into this reason and that reason to justify what i said because i had already done that in the original thread,..................i said and i repeat " kaboul is dodgy at right back because.......i saw him beaten a couple of times and didnt chase back, what more do i need to add to that ?

    I've explained that a few times now mate, I'm not going to again.

    its as plain as plain could be, now he may have been beaten more than twice, so that point is debatable but what i saw was him being easily brushed aside by chelsea attackers and not chasing back, daws and co were left with the dirty work to do.

    They covered him thrice Lew, it's part of their job. The credit for Khaboul, that I think he deserves, is that it was ONLY 3 times that they were required to do it.

    I still cannot understand why you don't see this.


    The post was all about kaboul, you went onto mention, bale. modric, bentley pav and uncle tom cobbley and all , in a futile attempt to trash my opinion, which incidently remains the same.

    Only futile if you are totally unreceptive to a counterargument, which you have made it abundantly clear is exactly your stance. You still haven't backed up your argument so it seems that maintaining your stance is nothing more than petulance when faced with the argument I've put forth.

    Because it isnt applicable ion ! lets get this straight now ! let me explain ............
    I think you realise by now that i can engage in debate on here to a very high standard, i am an educated person and can verbalise well with most people i meet, so i will say that i dont need to back up what i have already explained in the original thread ! why ? its childish.
    As for petulance ? you have to call it what you will ion, i call it "explanation not needed because it has already been backed up in the title thread " to go through it and debate it is silly because it isnt that controversial to warrant such a forum dissection.


    Please mate, offer me that counterargument. Give me the opportunity to concede that you are correct and I am wrong. If you can't then how about you do the same for me rather than give out the lame, halfwitted insults or the fingers in the ears 'la, la, la, I'm not listening' responses I've had to date.

    Why is it such a big thing to you ion ! it is one mans opinion of a spurs player, why do you feel the need to write chapter upon litany in explaining your counter assessment of the player.

    Because that is the whole point of a debate forum Lew. To debate.
    If I see something I think is wrong then I speak up. I'm not a shrinking violet who will go with the flow just because it's the general consensus. If it upsets people then so be it, I'll not compromise my beliefs just because it goes against the grain.
    If you prove me wrong then good on you and I'll thank you for it. I'm an Engineer mate so it's in my make up to worry at something I think is wrong until I fix it.
    I come on these forums because I get the opportunity to have these arguments, you know I enjoy them. I stay on THIS forum because the discussions are with people who have the ability to give me such good arguments.


    Yeah i got a little insulting because this is what you do, dissect a post to bits

    How is dissecting a post insulting for Christs sake?

    I answered each of the points you made. That is a courtesy in that I have read and digested your post, given it the thought it deserves and countered it in each point. That is debate, that is the art of argument.

    No ion what you did was chafe at the bit for an argument you thought you would win easily by pulling the original thread apart through debate that i have to admit you are very good at

    Once again you think that my reasoning is about scoring points. That has never been ny way and I'm rather disappointed that you see it that way.

    in this case i wasnt offering you the chance , because your opening bowshot smacked of " how dare you criticise a spurs player " (i am fed up etc etc )

    Only if I feel the criticism is unjust Lew. I've explained that copiously and backed my reasoning. The idea is to change your mind, the whole point of debate and argument.

    but i will say that its my right as a free thinking individual , there are critics in all walks of life not just football, people in the public eye are open to both praise and criticism, so for you to tell me " you are fed up " sheeesssh mate well keep staying fed up because i will criticise when i feel like doing it....thanks.

    That doesn't make the criticism just though Lew does it? I'll go back to the argument I had with Lought. He criticised Crouch's lack of goals which was a just criticism and I agreed that it was time for Crouch to be benched. However, he then went on to label him crap and that to me was unjust. He isn't my first choice by a long chalk but I see a player who is far better than he is given credit for. I was never angling for him to be on the starting sheet, just to get the credit he deserves.

    The same applies to Khaboul over the last 2 matches. THAT is the sum total of my argument.

    but what made it for me was that you actually claim the argument has been won saying that baz vis and others agree

    No mate. Baz, Vis and others agreed that I had put my point across meticulously, I never said that they agreed I'd won the argument. I claimed that mine was the better argument because, up until now, it has been the only one offered. Insult and evasion are all that has come from you.

    Well there you are then ion ! you have won again, baz and vis can double up your rep points for you. FAO ION ! Lol

    I couldn't care less about rep points Lew. Like I said this isn't a Pi**ing contest.



    .........well ion i havent mentioned other posters on here that actually agree with me, i could do but why ! my right is to my opinion, i dont need to drop names to back up what i believe is true.

    No, but facts would help. So far you've been awfully light in that area.

    I refer the right honourable gentleman to earlier statements in this tread.



    At the end of the day it isnt a big deal, an opinion is an opinion, and thats all, lought doesnt rate many a spurs player, jim doesnt rate o,hara, the list is endless, for us to make a big deal out of someones opinion is childish to me.

    I agree Lew, so why did you make such a fuss about me offering mine? Why get so up in arms when I back it? Why insult me incessantly instead of doing the Adult thing and get stuck into the argument and enjoy it as much as I do? It's not personal, I'm not here to make people I regard as friends look ridiculous. I argue all the time with friends off line because I, and they, regard it as fun. Yes it gets heated at times but it never results in blows or insults. Actually the insults do fly but it's normally with a smile on the face and it's invariably a way for the insulter to accede with good grace.

    Well ion i have seen you pull lought apart, i saw the tress thing, going back i have seen others made to look silly by you

    In all those instances I've entered into a reasonable debate, put my point across and got insulted for it.

    That was the point at which I made these people look silly. Like I said, I'm not a shrinking violet and give back better than I receive.

    Where is the wrong in that?

    and all i am saying is that " i dont rate kaboul at right back " FAO ION ! Lol it isnt a massive statement ! its an observation by myself, FAO ION ! Sleep you wanted to turn it into a debate when i personally dont regard it as that controversial

    But mate, why does it have to be controversial to merit debate? Everything is open to discussion and if you post a statement then you are inviting a response.

    but i knew you would get hold of it like a little jack russell and wouldnt let go until you had felt you had proved the statement wrong.

    What is wrong with that?


    Ion, sometimes a little servility goes a long way, why not just add to the post by saying something like "yeah lew agree but he could improve " not " i am fed up with..."

    Noted. You can understand my frustration though can't you when I see a player, who I thought performed admirably, caned for some minor indiscretions?

    I'll do you a deal. After having read some of the posts on my 'posting style' I promise to 'rein in' some of the more abrasive comments. In return can you, and some of your other 'brethren' try to accept that this isn't a Pi**ing contest, I'm not here to belittle posters, I'm merely speaking up against the tendency of some to pick out their favourite 'whipping boy' regardless of how well that player performs.

    Accepted ion ! never regarded it as a contest anyway, and as for whipping boys, ion these players get millions per year, the fans are entitled to their say , not in the white hart lane boo boys style but they are entitled to knock a player if they so desire

    But again, only if it is deserved. I think I've put up enough reasons to show that it wasn't.

    ............tell jim he cant call o,hara a no necked muppet ! FAO ION ! Lol

    Jim, you can't call O'Hara a no necked Muppet.



    You hate this fickle tag but no one hates it more than I do and that is why I am so vehement in my defence of these players. I see a great team performance, from the ENTIRE team, then come on here to find yet another unfancied player getting caned. I can't see where he has gone wrong in any way worse than any other player on the pitch so I post that and back it.

    Because of my support I get labelled a bully because my argument is a good one. Instead of being answered with a counterargument I get insulted. I have you stating that you want to 'verbally spar' with me which basically reinforces that you want to leave the subject matter and engage in an insult contest.

    Not at all ion ! you are well regarded on here and many dont cross swords with you, i am not afraid to do so, as for insults lots will tell you on here that mainly only burger and myself have gotten into that scene on this new forum, by verbally sparring i meant i will give as good as i get , and that would be without resorting to insults.

    OK mate, a new page.

    I'll forget that I got a few in spades though hey? FAO ION ! Lol

    Am I supposed to dumb down my ability to argue just so no one else feels intimidated?

    What kind of prejudice is that?

    I've been accused of being in a clique, that every time I post I'm backed by the clique and yet the only time I get backed is after I get insulted, once again after putting a good argument across.

    I cant speak for others on here ! i saw the conflab between you and baz and tress, i would say baz is right that you do have a tendency to not just argue the point but to actually grind the other person into the ground

    Only after being insulted Lew.

    Like I said, I give back better than I get. With some that is far easier than with others.

    ............i dont want baz to come on here and say i have quoted him wrong but i believe he said that " people are entitled to their opinions" for someone like yourself to come on and batter that opinion into the ground could put people off of posting

    And I intend to 'refine' some of my more cutting remarks Lew. However, if my replies do show another post as holding little of substance is that so wrong? I've seen many on here, yourself prominently included, ridicule posters if they do put up a howler.

    Yet I'm the only one you bring to task for it.

    Again this smacks of prejudice in my direction. To date I've never had a moderator pull me up for anything I've posted, quite the opposite really with others being pulled up for how they've posted to me.

    That tells a story better than any other.

    ..............ion believe me mate when i say that i have scrubbed some of my posts out because i knew you would be down on them like a ton of bricks, and i just wasnt in the mood (at that time )to confront you if you did, ....... if i feel like that knowing that i can stand up to you how do you think others feel on here that are not as confident ?

    This forum doesn't lack for posts Lew. I think you do many of the others a disservice by inferring that they are 'afraid' of me. The vast majority of the time I have really good discussions on here with a wide variety of posters. You've even stated yourself that I'm well liked on here so that kind of makes a lie of your statement.

    Consider this too, if knowing that I will come on and argue a point makes another poster think more about the substance of his, or her, post then doesn't that increase the quality of the reading matter and debate?

    Rather than detracting I'm actually enhancing?



    Now I have you and others on here totally avoiding the issue just to take a shot at me personally. All because I argue well.

    Who's integrity does that bring into question? Certainly not mine.

    Yeah so you argue well, but argue well without making people believe their opinion is sh-te !

    If they have a good argument then why would they think that? A good argument has my respect every time. A good analysis or observation tooYou make it seem that I troll the board looking to shoot every claim, opinion or observation down in flames whereas, more often than not, it's the opposite.

    Were I the troll would I have the respect from the board that you claim I have?

    encourage people to want to come on here not scare them off because you are good or better than them in that department

    You know what attracts me to forums Lew? The quality of the posting. If I go onto a forum where halfwits are sucking up to each other, posting drivel that is swallowed whole by the sheep then I avoid it. I couldn't care less if the are Spurs, pulling on the Lillywhite doesn't make you less stupid.

    This board, with the odd exception, doesn't have those halfwits. It has knowledgable fans who are eloquent to degrees. It has fans that can debate.

    I love that about this board.

    ............i reckon you should be a lawyer ion, charles manson might be a free man now if you had taken the case FAO ION ! Lol

    Only if I'd used the Chewbacca defence!

    God I hope you've seen South Park or that just went by with a mighty WHOOOOOSH.



    But back to the ekotto bale argument !
    whatever you say ion, bale is at left midfield because thats a spot where we lack creativity

    I take you back to earlier in the season when Modric was out on the left, prior to him breaking his leg. The entire board, and every other Spurs fan besides, was waxing lyrical about how suprbly he was playing in that position, how our left sided issues were now over. His leg is broken by the Rat and everyone is seriously concerned about the loss of his creativity.
    Nico comes in and is a revelation. Plays superbly and alleviates all our fears because he too offers creativity, and a bit of Steel, on the left side. Our concerns then switch to the right because Lennon is crocked.
    Ekotto is then injured and Bale is drafted in. There are some concerns because he was dire in the early season and he's still carrying this 'jinx' millstone around his neck. He soon blows that out of the water because he suddenly looks like we've just weighed out on a World Class player. All of a sudden Modric and Ekotto are fit again. Modric was superb on the left and so was Ekotto. However, Bale is uprooting trees so who has to move? Were Ekotto keeping Bale's seat warm then it's a no brainer. He gets dropped, Bale goes to left back and Modric returns to the position that he was creating havok from early season. But that doesn't happen. Ekotto retains his place, Bale is pushed forward and Modric is moved because Bale can do more damage down the left whilst Modric has the ability to roam thus increasing our creative options.

    and thats the reason why ekotto is still at left back

    See above.

    ....and ! if i was harry thats exactly what i would have done, in fact i have posted that bale left wing.....lennon right wing........what a brilliant two pronged attack, i have even put my preferred spurs team down a few times with ekotto at left back and bale on the wing..............but i know if we had a natural left winger then bale would be at left back and ekotto bench warming..............hell.! sh-te ! and damn it...no i dont mean i dont rate ekotto i just think bale is better.

    Having seen Bale's performances on the wing I'm gobsmacked that you don't believe he is a natural winger. He's predominantly left footed and is currently skinning fullbacks for fun. His preferred avenue is to hit the bye line and cross. Everything that a winger is supposed to do and this lad, considering his age, is doing it instinctively.

    I'd say he's a born left winger.

    I actually agree with this ion, arnie put me in doubt when he said that bale is better coming from the back marauding forward, but i have always said he is our answer to the left wing problem, i said that when we first bought him and believed it all along, so i am not going to argue over something i have already argued with others on here about.............he is a left winger imho.

    So Ekotto is safe then eh Lew?




    Its ok mate, its just a forum........ FAO ION ! Icon_sunny

    LOL. I've been saying this all along Lew, it's not personal, you know damned well that I have never insulted anyone on here or any other board until they fire one at me first, even then I use them more as a P*ss take than to really get nasty.

    In a nutshell you did what others on here have done, misunderstood a forceful argument and took it as a personal attack. In all the years you've known me have you ever known me to initiate a personal attack on anyone?

    My pleasure is the exchange of views, the cut and thrust of the argument. Please bear that in mind the next time we cross swords, and we will mate.

    I look forward to it ion, i realise that you like a good debate, and make no mistakes i will be there sometimes to keep you up to scratch.

    That's all I ever ask Lew. A frank exchange of views backed with a knowledgable argument.

    Who knows ......................... One day someone MAY just prove me wrong.


    One day!! FAO ION ! Lol
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    Post by tressman1 Wed Apr 21 2010, 21:19

    Is it just me but this has got too hard to read and follow I am over it,
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    Post by Guest Wed Apr 21 2010, 22:18

    i stopped readin ages ago, theres to much cut and paste. i found myself reading the same bit. and for the recored i dont think bale was dire early season. its just everyone blames him cos of that thing hangin round hes neck
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    Post by SuneJim Thu Apr 22 2010, 01:22

    Have to say i have no intention of reading that lot lol.
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    Post by ArnieArdiles Thu Apr 22 2010, 01:28

    I read it all, no problem FAO ION ! 99038 ....My AOhell stint, has made me into the forum reader I am today lol
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    Post by Guest Thu Apr 22 2010, 02:12

    ArnieArdiles wrote:I read it all, no problem FAO ION ! 99038 ....My AOhell stint, has made me into the forum reader I am today lol

    Arnie ! glad to hear that because i thought both ion and myself reasoned it out at the end.

    Peace and love man FAO ION ! Icon_rr FAO ION ! Lol
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    Post by BazSpur Thu Apr 22 2010, 03:16

    I read it and thought it was a breeze as well as a stonking good read but then I waded through Hitlers war on Russia and War and peace in the same night and then Lord of the Rings trilogy the following night PMSL.

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