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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid Empty To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

    Post by LOBO Wed Nov 07 2012, 19:11

    well take a look at this , ive highlighted the bit that refers to us taken from the BBC sports website .


    Racist players 'should be sacked' according to new plan

    Footballers guilty of racist abuse should be sacked by their clubs and banned for up to nine months, according to the body behind plans for a black players' union.
    The Society of Black Lawyers has put out a 10-point plan to tackle racism.
    It wants matches to be abandoned if there is racial abuse from fans.
    The organisation is also demanding referee Mark Clattenburg be suspended while claims he made racial comments to Chelsea players are investigated.
    Continue reading the main story

    The FA itself must set a clear set of sanctions against racist abuse on the field that reflects the seriousness of the offence

    Society of Black Lawyers
    In addition, the society has also warned the Football Association and Tottenham Hotspur that it will make a complaint to police unless action is taken against what it says is anti-Semitic abuse taking place at White Hart Lane.
    The document was published ahead of a meeting between the FA, Professional Footballers' Association, Premier League and trustees of anti-racism body Kick It Out on Wednesday.
    The society is involved in talks to create a Black Players' Association with some professionals, claiming the football authorities are not doing enough to represent them or to tackle racism in the sport.
    The PFA recently introduced its own six-point action plan but the society says this will prove "ineffective".
    The legal group says more needs to be done to engage with black players and adds that recent punishments for racist abuse given to Chelsea captain John Terry and Liverpool striker Luis Suarez have left some black footballers disillusioned.
    Terry was banned for four matches and fined £220,000 by the FA for racially abusing QPR defender Anton Ferdinand, while Suarez received an eight-match ban for racially abusing Manchester United full-
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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid Empty Re: To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

    Post by spurslegend Thu Nov 08 2012, 03:41

    yid armmmyyyy f*ck the black lawyers f*cking racist cnuts been singing this all my life the slags f*ck them all cnuts
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    Post by vis Thu Nov 08 2012, 06:58


    Tottenham could face police complaint because of fans' chant
    By Simon Austin and Alistair Magowan BBC Sport


    Tottenham have been accused of "insulting people's intelligence" by attempting to justify the chanting of the word "Yid" by their supporters.

    The head of the Society of Black Lawyers says he will complain formally to police if Spurs fail to take action within a fortnight to stop the chants.

    In a statement, Spurs said their fans used the term as a "defence mechanism" against anti-Semitism from rivals.

    But Peter Herbert said this "wouldn't make sense to a six-year-old".

    Oldham footballer Dean Furman, who is Jewish, has also told BBC Sport there should be a "zero tolerance" approach and fans using the chant should be immediately thrown out of stadiums.
    Continue reading the main story

    “You can't use it as a nickname or a chant because abusive chants will come back”

    Dean Furman Oldham Athletic

    However, Piara Powar, executive director of the Football Against Racism in Europe organisation, has criticised Herbert for being naive and questioned whether he properly understands football.

    Some Tottenham fans have historically referred to themselves as the "Yid Army", in reference to the club's Jewish supporters.

    The term is used in a chant by some fans at White Hart Lane and can often be seen on flags and banners at the ground.

    But Herbert told BBC Sport: "Clearly Tottenham have a distance to travel before they learn of the offence that is being caused.

    "If you had a group of Afro-Caribbean supporters using the 'N-word', even as a 'defence mechanism', it would clearly be completely unacceptable. There are young supporters present when the chants are used.

    "Use of the word, even in this way, could be seen by some as justifying other people using the term."

    He has warned the north London club that unless they take action by 20 November, he will report "a racist incident" to the Metropolitan Police.
    Earlier on Wednesday, Spurs released a statement arguing that "real anti-Semitic abuse, such as hissing to simulate the noise of gas chambers, is the real evil and the real offence".

    It continued: "Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. Our position on this topic is very clear. The club does not tolerate any form of racist or abusive chanting.

    "Our guiding principle in respect of the 'Y-word' is based on the point of law itself - the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used, ie if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence. This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date.

    "They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it a chant amongst themselves.

    "We believe this is the area that requires a determined and concerted effort from all parties and where we seek greater support to eradicate."

    Oldham and South Africa midfielder Furman backed Herbert by saying the term should not be used at all.

    "I understand that it can be used as a nickname in some quarters, but if it's important to stop the use of the word then you can't use it either way," he told BBC Sport.

    "You can't use it as a nickname or a chant for Tottenham because abusive chants will come back. The more they use it, the more opposition fans will use it. If it is banned altogether then hopefully we won't get the abuse at all. It needs to be tackled in the same way as racist chanting.
    Continue reading the main story

    “I think this is where Peter Herbert and the Society of Black Lawyers are naiive, they perhaps don't know football”

    Piara Power Football Against Racism in Europe

    "The sanctions need to be high and then it will be stamped out of the game for good. We need zero tolerance."

    "The anti-Semitic abuse is sung on the terraces and it's vital that anyone caught singing these chants is immediately removed from the stadium.

    "People will be singing those songs without the knowledge of what went on in the Holocaust, for instance. Knowledge is everything and the sooner we can get these songs stamped out of our game the better."

    But Powar criticised Herbert for his intervention. "I think this is where Peter Herbert and the Society of Black Lawyers are naive," he told BBC Sport.

    "They perhaps don't know football. To think 20 to 30 years of complex identity will be cleared up overnight is wrong. And I have to say that the Jewish community are split on their use of that term.

    "Many young members say it's a badge of appreciation and gives them pride. Some older members says that's not true, it's a derogatory term and goes back to a period they don't want to remember."
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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid Empty Re: To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

    Post by vis Thu Nov 08 2012, 08:20

    Hello SpursLegend, long time no see. I have to sort of agree with you, but not entirely and I'm somewhat confused with the rhetoric that is being spouted on this whole subject. Boy oh boy this is going to open a whole can of worms. The Black Lawyers Association? Do they welcome white lawyers in? If not they are racist surely?. Or are they? Probably only a "black" (what kind of a term is that in the 21st Century?) person could tell me? I don't agree with segregation of any kind and organisations such as this seem to welcome segregation. Are mixed race lawyers welcome? Talk about splitting hairs!
    Sheesh this is dangerous territory. Spurs are the Yids. I don't see it as anti-Semitic but others may? I don't hate Jews. I'm not Jewish yet refer to myself as a Yid. Is that correct? I suppose only a Jewish person could tell me? As a white, working class person I feel out of my depth here and wonder should I even have an opinion?
    Yeah, may be I should. Terry and Anton Ferdinand (the individuals who seem to be the main catalysts in this explosion of opinions) are both English. Therefore part of the same race? The English race?
    sh*t at the end of the day we are all people regardless of race, creed, religion, sexuality, and any other kind of difference.
    The people in charge of football, for me, need to be very careful where they allow this delicate matter to progress to.
    If I have offended anyone with this reply I apologise unreservedly. I just have difficulty seeing why this situation has got to this stage and the acrimonious call & counter-call of racism et al. . . . .
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    Post by vis Thu Nov 08 2012, 09:07

    "If you had a group of Afro-Caribbean supporters using the 'N-word', even as a 'defence mechanism', it would clearly be completely unacceptable.


    I don't think Mr Herbert has listened to that much music from the Rap/Hip-Hop genre . . . . .
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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid Empty Re: To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

    Post by ionman34 Thu Nov 08 2012, 20:09

    spurslegend wrote:yid armmmyyyy f*ck the black lawyers f*cking racist cnuts been singing this all my life the slags f*ck them all cnuts

    This.

    Yid army is a chant CELEBRATING our connection with the Jews, not deriding them. The chant was taken on to diffuse the attempts by opposition fans to be racist towards our history and affiliation.

    And it worked. Now the best they can manage is spuds.

    In the same way they couldn't prevent me flying the biggest f*ck off flag of St George during the 2002 WC finals (Southwark council claimed it would upset the minorities), they won't stop me referring to myself as a Yid.

    Any decent lawyer would get a racism charge thrown out of court on that alone.

    The UK is f*cked and the World has gone PC mad.

    God help our kids.

    Read a little anecdote the other day that puts this PC garbage into perfect perspective;

    A little weed was growing in a garden. When the gardener was about to pull it up it appealed to the other flowers, 'am I not also entitled to grow? To feel the sun on my leaves and taste the rain? Is this too much to ask?'

    The other flowers considered then appealed to the gardener to spare the weed. Soon it grew and multiplied, blocking the sun from the other flowers and strangling their roots until all bar a rose bush died.

    At this, the rose bush then appealed to the weed;

    'Am I not entitled to grow? To feel the sun on my leaves and taste the rain? Is this too much to ask?'

    'Yes it is too much to ask replied the weed.'

    Sorry if it comes over all pretentious, but the weed is now calling the shots in the UK and Football is showing just one of the symptoms.
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    To be a Yid or not to be a Yid Empty Re: To be a Yid or not to be a Yid

    Post by BazSpur Fri Nov 09 2012, 03:33

    Silly, sillly silly. We will still refer to ourselves as Yids. It is not going to go away because a group of lawyers says it will. Baddiel started all this nonsense and he supports one of the most racist clubs in the Prem. Does he refuse to shake john Terry's hand whenever he meets him? If he feels so bad about racism why does he support Chelsea, recognised as being riddled with racist supporters. Double standards Mr Baddiel. Second rate "Comedian supporting a second rate club with money.
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    Post by vis Fri Nov 09 2012, 04:48

    You also have to blame Ken Bates on the Chelski trying to stop Yid chants . . . . .
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    Post by BazSpur Fri Nov 09 2012, 05:09

    Yeah, another cnut.
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    Post by shearspur Sat Nov 10 2012, 10:22

    all this shite about chants at whl that have gone on for years is also dangerous, highlighting yids and jewish stuff as your prbably get a muslim terrorist group plot some bloody bombing at the ground, where the majority in there are not jewish anyway.gotta be honest im not jewish and i dont feel comfortable chanting it not because of a racist thing its just im not jewish so why chant yid songs i prefer all the other ones.again hope no offence taken by anyone on here just my opinion.
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    Post by BazSpur Sat Nov 10 2012, 10:26

    No offence taken by me Shear. As you say it's just opinions.
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    Post by seebee1944 Sat Nov 10 2012, 21:12


    I agree with Shear about being uncomfortable using the chant because of it's historical connections with Nazism and I certainly wouldn't use it to any of my Jewish friend, just as I wouldn't call anybody the N word.
    However Ions point about PC gone mad is also correct remember Alf Garnett in the 70's using it regularly without too much reaction.


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    Post by BazSpur Sat Nov 10 2012, 21:49

    Alf Garnett, was a different situation though. That was the writers of the programme showing up the bigotry of racists who were far more vocal in those days. It was a parody of what was being said to black people everyday. Warren Mitchell is himself a Jew.
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    Post by cstmrsking Sat Nov 10 2012, 22:17

    Hmm
    Lots of really good points made by all, some imparticular are very strong indeed. I understand ions point about Yid chanting, it stops the opposition from Hijacking it. Context is the provided, could you imagine all the other Clubs chanting Yid yid yid, It then takes on a whole different slant abd then becomes more about race and anti semitism etc. So I think it is important that as Spurs Fans we protect and preserve that part of our History with the Clubs roots that go way back. I know when I meet up with Black friends we will jokingly refer to one another from time to time with the "N" Word, thats about us de powering its use from other's as the Word Negro Negroid ... are all perfectly legitimate words that over time have been dirtied by adding a the prefix you F ucking Nigger ...

    Clearly racism exist in Society, therfore it will in Football, there is now a cclear spotlight on Racism and that light should be held shinning bright.

    With regards, to Black Lawyer Assc.(BLA) I dont agree with it, in that it creates in my view division. But we must sad as it isunderstand why breakaway come about. Often it is an issue of trust, no trust no confidence in the existing system. My guess is that some Black Players may lack the confidence in the current set up, that is perhaps largly represented by White Solicitors who may not fully understand some of the issues, we are also talking about Big Money behind the scenes. I think that the message from Blak Players Is, we just want the system that is currently in place to work and if you cant get it to work we will go to the BLA and that would not be good and they the Black players know that Footballing Bodies really wont want that to happen.If there was for example a representative from the BLA attached to the Kick It out campaign I think would add some much needed confidence.

    Just to finish, Spurs has a fantastic History in Bringing in Black and Foreign Players(Walter Tull) We are probably the least Racist Club out there and have done More because of that to promote Anti Racism.

    Proud to Be a Yid.

    I too hope I not offend or upset anyone
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    Post by Boltjean Sat Nov 10 2012, 23:26

    I agree, some very good points both for and against this argument. What do I think?, well if I was Jewish, I do not believe it would bother me one bit, and as someone said we have had a connection with the Jews for decades although I do not have any idea how far back the connection goes. Not sure here, but was'nt Alan Sugar and Irvine Scholar, pardon the spelling, our past chairmen Jewish. I do not know how long the crowd have been chanting this Yid chant, but if it was being done in the reign of both these chairmen why was'nt it addressed at the time by putting a article in the match day programe. If anything I think As Baz said, Warren Mitchell was a big Spurs fan, he was Jewish, and there have been other big name stars who have followed Spurs who were Jewish, I think Peter Cook was another, but did they complain?. I think the likes of Peter Herbert, the human rights league, and all the other do gooders, including MPs do more harm than good by inflaming the racism in this country. Back in the days when we did the double there were I believe two maybe have been three supporters that dressed as Angels going round the track jumping in the air and chanting, it was great, they really warmed the crowd up. What happend?, the Vicar of the Church at the High Cross Tottenham complained to the club and it was stopped because they said it was insulting to Christian religion.
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    Post by BazSpur Sun Nov 11 2012, 02:02

    I deleted one of your posts Kingy as you posted it twice.

    Very good post mate and I agree with everything you say. The BLA is not a good idea in my opinion but like you I can see why it's occurred. Black players are beginning to feel marginalised particularly in light of recent racism aimed at certain players. This is what happens when The FA don't impose severe penalties on racism within the game. Terry should have got a severe penalty as should Suarez. Len, you are right we have a proud history of bringing in foreign players which have enriched the history of the club.
    Was chairman Sidney Wale also Jewish? As for the chant itself I am not sure what era it started to be heard but I think Late 70's early 80's was when we first started referring to ourselves as Yids. Personally I have no problem with it because of the context it is being used in. There was an interesting article in one of the broadsheets written by a Jewish Spurs supporter who is also a Journalist who said he has no problem with the chant and even sings along himself. Although he did say some of his Jewish friends don't like it. He reckons it is fairly evenly split between Jewish supporters of Spurs. There are worse chants and songs aimed at us Spurs fans i.e the hissing sound some supporters aim at us and Arsenal's favourite one "We were running round Tottenham with our cocks hanging out" A reference to Jews being circumcised.


    REPs for Kingy and Len.
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    Post by Boltjean Sun Nov 11 2012, 06:56

    Thank you Baz. I wonder how long it will be before the environment agency take action against Brighton for there chants of Seagulls, Seagulls as there supporters are encouraging Seagulls into the resort and there's bird droppings everywhere, not nice that. Perhaps Lawyers should take on the Arsenal as there fans chant come on you Gunners, surely this is inciteing supporters to carry fire arms.
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    Post by cstmrsking Sun Nov 11 2012, 06:56

    Baz, I posted It twice beause the spelling and Grammar was so bad and you Deleted the Good One lol.


    Thanks for the Comments. Whers the Rep for me and Len. lol
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    Post by BazSpur Sun Nov 11 2012, 07:02

    Ahhhh Kingy Reps have now been duly awarded thanks for the reminder. You can correct spelling mistakes by going to the bottom of your post and clicking the edit button. All the technology on here mate, no need to write the whole post again lol.


    Last edited by BazSpur on Sun Nov 11 2012, 08:57; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by cstmrsking Sun Nov 11 2012, 08:35

    Rep Sir Baz for the handy Editing Tip.
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    Post by vis Wed Nov 14 2012, 10:19

    Who'd be your footballing Newcomer of the Season? Who has sprung from relative obscurity to outright celebrity?

    No doubt the likes of Michu, Santi Cazorla, Kevin Mirallas and Raheem Sterling would all receive plenty of votes.

    But surely none has had a greater, more sudden impact on the current footballing landscape, nor inspired as many column inches, than a certain Peter Herbert.
    It's hard to believe that just a month ago very few in the sport had even heard of The Society for Black Lawyers. Now the organisation and its chairman are front and centre of the game's discourse.

    But in Herbert's case, of course, it would be wrong to mistake prominence with popularity.

    In recent days, he's been described as a sensationalist member of the thought-police. Condemned as a politically-correct, naive, agenda-chasing, publicity-seeking, bandwagon-jumping, johnny-come-lately with no knowledge of the sport he criticises.

    Herbert caused a stir when, last month, in the wake of John Terry being banned for just four matches after he was found guilty of racially abusing Anton Ferdinand, he revealed his role in talks over a separatist Black Footballers' Association. For many, this marked Herbert out as a divisive figure, encouraging a dangerous 'us and them' mentality.

    But it was two subsequent episodes that really ensured Herbert would come under fire.

    First, he reported Mark Clattenburg to the police over Chelsea's allegations the referee used a racist term towards Jon Obi Mikel. And then he described Spurs fans as 'casual racists' over their use of the 'Y-word', giving them two weeks to cease the chants before referring the matter, once again, to the police.

    It's unlikely that Herbert is too bothered by all the criticism he's received as a result. This is, after all, one of the leading human rights lawyers of his generation, one of a very small number of black judges, a veteran of 30 years' worth of campaigning against institutional racism, and for greater racial equality in the criminal justice system. This is a man who's taken on opponents that make the footballing establishment look positively tame in comparison.

    The son of a white mother and African father, Herbert was brought up in the Northumberland mining town of Ashington, home of the Charlton brothers. The only mixed-race child at his school, the teenage Herbert was the victim of merciless verbal and physical racial abuse, an ordeal that helps to explain his subsequent determination to speak out against discrimination at every opportunity.
    Described as "exceptionally driven and robust" by one person who has worked with him, Herbert went on to become an internationally-renowned defence barrister, working on some of the most high-profile murder and terrorist cases of recent decades, representing one of the social work managers in the Victoria Climbie Inquiry, and appointed Lead Counsel by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda. Having made submissions to several Judicial Inquiries, namely the Home Affairs Select Committee on Racial Attacks in 1992 and the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry in 1998, Herbert was also a recipient of the American Bar Association's Human Rights Award.

    But while Herbert may be exceptionally well qualified to talk about issues of race, many feel he's gone about it in entirely the wrong way.

    Herbert's tendency to say what he thinks has got him into trouble before. In 2004 the Bar Council's disciplinary committee found him guilty of breaching its Code of Conduct which bans barristers from voicing personal opinions to the media in cases they're currently acting, a decision he called a "travesty of justice" by a "kangaroo court". Herbert was reprimanded and advised as to future conduct.

    But could it be that the outspoken Herbert is in fact exactly what the game needs to shake it out of any complacency it may still have towards discrimination? Some I've spoken to in football's anti-racism movement say they agree with almost all of what Herbert says. The SBL's 10-point plan demanding football's authorities get much tougher on racism certainly strikes a chord with most people after Terry's four-match suspension, and the drawn-out process to get there.

    The boycott of Kick It Out's Week of Action recently by senior black players told you all you needed to know about the frustration many feel towards the FA and PFA. While the Terry and Suarez cases provided the spark, much of their resentment lay in the sport's continuing inability to address under-representation of ethnic minorities in dugouts and boardrooms.

    Some black players feel that KIO, with its shoestring budget, obvious inability to criticise the very organisations that co-fund it, and without a strong voice since the departure of former director Piara Powar, is failing to engage with them, and to speak out enough on behalf of them or their communities. Black players complain that they rarely see or hear from KIO's staff.

    Herbert appeared therefore to have timed his arrival on the scene perfectly. And yet, despite their frustrations, which players have actually come out and publicly backed Herbert and his concept of a Black Players' Association? Not one.

    Herbert's problem is that football isn't the Metropolitan Police or the Judiciary. It doesn't respond to his version of shock and awe. It's inherently conservative, fiercely independent, and doesn't take kindly to outsiders telling it what to do.

    But while Herbert's efforts to forge an organisation to represent black players may fail, there's little doubt he's made the game stop and ask itself:

    why there are so many black players, but so few black managers or directors;
    why the notion of reporting an allegation of racist abuse to the police without witnessing it yourself is, according to some, so outlandish, even when the landmark MacPherson Report enshrines the right of people to do exactly that;
    why so many think it so wrong for Chelsea to complain to the FA once one of their players has come to them with an allegation of racial abuse (does the fact that it involves a referee mean it should just be swept under the carpet?);
    why the mere concept of a body that would speak on behalf of a group of players that feel under-represented is regarded with such horror;
    why asking fans to cease chanting a term that many Jews find highly offensive is seen as unnecessary interference;
    why those in the grassroots of the game who complain to their County FAs about cases of racist abuse find themselves waiting months before anything happens;
    why, unlike the rest of society, those accused of racial abuse aren't suspended pending the outcome of their respective investigations.

    Tough questions, but ones which deserve answers. Herbert may not be an ex-footballer. He may not have as much credibility or recognition among the fans as Garth Crooks or Paul Elliott. Indeed, he freely admits he's only been to four matches in his entire life. But he speaks at a time when the government wants to see football do a lot more when it comes to the thorny issue of racism.

    Think fooball has done enough to combat the problem? Think Herbert's opinions are an irrelevance now the dark days of terrace abuse have thankfully faded? Ask Anton Ferdinand what he thinks. Or Marvin Sordell. Or Danny Rose. Or the youngsters who play for Leicester Nirvana. They claim they were racially abused and subject to monkey noises during a recent under-15 fixture. Herbert and the SBL have taken up their case for free, and the Leicestershire Police are investigating.

    Those who run, play and follow football have every right to disagree with the views of Herbert. But they'd be wise not to ignore him. The battle to rid the game of discrimination and racism is far from won.

    I still say this dude has never listened to any Rap music and is use of censored terms, slang & profanity . . . . .

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