Match Thread Vs Aston Villa

ArnieArdiles wrote:That's how I see it too, Baz . It's a match thread with the lads here chatting about the positives as well as the negatives . I only find it annoying when it gets abusive towards a player or manager .

When I look at Defoe's career I think he could've done better if he worked more on his awareness of those around him. For me , the game at Old Trafford was one of his best ever games in a Spurs shirt , a game he didn't score a goal!

Loughtonlegend wrote:walker always being caught out of position but does do well to recover.

sandro has has some bad moments in games but we are a lot better with hin in the team then when jake was playing.

ekotto best left back lol im glad he has competion for places. but at times hes a libilty.

defoe. the guy is so selfish. i do wonder if we had better up front then the team might of had more goals.

ionman34 wrote:

ArnieArdiles wrote:That's how I see it too, Baz . It's a match thread with the lads here chatting about the positives as well as the negatives . I only find it annoying when it gets abusive towards a player or manager .

When I look at Defoe's career I think he could've done better if he worked more on his awareness of those around him. For me , the game at Old Trafford was one of his best ever games in a Spurs shirt , a game he didn't score a goal!

And yet his contribution was ignored. Who got the praise? The usual suspects Sandro and Vertonghen along with AVB.

No one ever chats about the positive contributions Defoe makes, he's only ever mentioned, in the main, when someone has a gripe about something he does wrong. His positive attributes are grudgingly recognised whenever someone, like myself, brings up the incessant griping over his failings.

You've said it yourself Arnie, many share your view and you seem to believe that this is indictment enough. My gripe is that there is no balance in the criticism, it is all negative.

Walker is getting this too now. I read forum comments on his game against Villa before watching the game and expected to see him having a mare. Instead I saw him get caught out of position on a handful of occasions, whereby he dug himself out with a speedy recovery, then get involved in some quality Football down the right, culminating in a peach of a cross that Deuce should have buried. Mention of this? No. Not until I pointed it out myself then the grudging agreement was seen.

Mate, I have no problem with constructive criticism at all, but when it is as unbalanced as it is when players like Defoe, Walker are concerned then I will say my piece. Zero perspective gets on my tits, particularly when fan 'favourites' get exactly the opposite. Vertonghen got skinned by Nani quite often against Utd but this was totally ignored with him getting MOM votes. We even have many claiming that he should be first choice LB now, less than 6 months after Disco being feted as, arguably, one of the top 2 LB's in the Prem.

Sandro is immune from criticism too, despite being one of our worst culprits for ball turnover. How many player ratings have you seen where he scores in the top 3 for being, and I quote, 'a beast?'

Defoe could do 9 things right and one thing wrong and the comments will be solely about the one thing wrong. It has always been that way. He scores two he should have had three, he forces a quality save and he should have passed it. Always negative, no balance.

We go on about the press having an agenda yet, at times, we're worse. It's probably the least palatable aspect of Spurs fans and bugs me no end.

Then the old 'it would be boring if we all agreed' Tosh gets trotted out every time to excuse the haters.

Like I said, he can be improved upon but, until he is, how about some praise where it is due along with the criticism as there is precious little.

BazSpur wrote:Then the old 'it would be boring if we all agreed' Tosh gets trotted out every time to excuse the haters.


Who said they hated Defoe ion? No one hates him. It's not so much it would be boring if we all agreed. It's a case of if you don't agree you don't agree. I'm not going to agree because someone told me I should or because you see positives that I didn't or maybe because others feel his negatives outweigh the positives. I have nothing against Defoe per'se but I do feel he's a greedy player who does go for goal when there are better options at times. In that respect I don't think he's a team player. There was a moment in the Villa match when he shot at goal and missed and yet there was a player in a much better position to score who berated Defoe for not passing I think it was Bale. I hear all the time that strikers by nature are greedy which is probably true but even the greedy ones will recognise when players are in a much better position to score. I like Defoe as a person he comes across as a genuinely nice bloke, it's just some aspects of his play I have issues with. On some of the pages on facebook that I go on the biggest gripe is that after all the time he's been playing he still finds it difficult to stay on side. That for me is not a big issue but his constant shooting at goal when there are glaringly better options is.

djfitzo wrote:TBH, Bale is also the same, when he gets put in on the left channel, he will always shoot when a ball slid across the box would be a cast iron goal. Bale shot against Manure and the keeper pushed it to Dempsey, but against Villa exactly the same position, his shot hit the keeper and post and came out. Now if its a tight game 0-0 or 1-0 the pass for a goal would be crucial. Defoe did actually made the pass for Bale to shoot for Dempsey to score, so he can do it, but naturally will shoot. Thats why players like Rooney get all the praise because they more often then not look for the option that will get a goal.
But like a lot others and at nearly 30 Defoe does get caught offside at an alarming rate and from free kiks and goal kicks, so no excuse for that. I have always said that Benny is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one yer gonna get, world class one week and Sunday league the next and I know its early doors but big Jan is a better defender and seems to have struck up an instant understanding with Bale. However i would still like to see the following back line established at some point, that being

Walker Kaboul/Caulker Big V Benny

ArnieArdiles wrote:

ionman34 wrote:

ArnieArdiles wrote:That's how I see it too, Baz . It's a match thread with the lads here chatting about the positives as well as the negatives . I only find it annoying when it gets abusive towards a player or manager .

When I look at Defoe's career I think he could've done better if he worked more on his awareness of those around him. For me , the game at Old Trafford was one of his best ever games in a Spurs shirt , a game he didn't score a goal!

And yet his contribution was ignored. Who got the praise? The usual suspects Sandro and Vertonghen along with AVB.

No one ever chats about the positive contributions Defoe makes, he's only ever mentioned, in the main, when someone has a gripe about something he does wrong. His positive attributes are grudgingly recognised whenever someone, like myself, brings up the incessant griping over his failings.

You've said it yourself Arnie, many share your view and you seem to believe that this is indictment enough. My gripe is that there is no balance in the criticism, it is all negative.

Walker is getting this too now. I read forum comments on his game against Villa before watching the game and expected to see him having a mare. Instead I saw him get caught out of position on a handful of occasions, whereby he dug himself out with a speedy recovery, then get involved in some quality Football down the right, culminating in a peach of a cross that Deuce should have buried. Mention of this? No. Not until I pointed it out myself then the grudging agreement was seen.

Mate, I have no problem with constructive criticism at all, but when it is as unbalanced as it is when players like Defoe, Walker are concerned then I will say my piece. Zero perspective gets on my tits, particularly when fan 'favourites' get exactly the opposite. Vertonghen got skinned by Nani quite often against Utd but this was totally ignored with him getting MOM votes. We even have many claiming that he should be first choice LB now, less than 6 months after Disco being feted as, arguably, one of the top 2 LB's in the Prem.

Sandro is immune from criticism too, despite being one of our worst culprits for ball turnover. How many player ratings have you seen where he scores in the top 3 for being, and I quote, 'a beast?'

Defoe could do 9 things right and one thing wrong and the comments will be solely about the one thing wrong. It has always been that way. He scores two he should have had three, he forces a quality save and he should have passed it. Always negative, no balance.

We go on about the press having an agenda yet, at times, we're worse. It's probably the least palatable aspect of Spurs fans and bugs me no end.

Then the old 'it would be boring if we all agreed' Tosh gets trotted out every time to excuse the haters.

Like I said, he can be improved upon but, until he is, how about some praise where it is due along with the criticism as there is precious little.

I understand your viewpoint, I really do, that there are haters out there regarding certain players and Defoe is certainly a player that splits opinion more than most but even by his standards against Villa, I felt some of his efforts on goal were bordering on the ridiculous and it was not good team play on his part. I cannot fault, Defoe for effort but I do want him to play with more intelligence, a better team game, as I feel there are times where his style of play is costing us. I feel that having a striker who shoots on sight rather than acknowledging better options, is detrimental to the team in more ways than one. We're talking about his greed here and I just can't help thinking he would score even more goals if he were not so greedy, if that makes sense?

I recall many years ago playing in teams where the striker was seen as a greedy fecker and soon enough that greed would spread to the other attacking players. This in turn would hurt the greedy striker and more importantly the team on the whole!



Recently we've seen both Dempsey and Bale displaying similar traits when a pass should be made but instead they go for a shot when the shot was not the best option.

Dempsey said after the Villa game :

“It was a big boost for us to have Adebayor coming back to fitness against Villa.

“You could see his quality when he came on. There is more competition for spots now and that will push everyone’s game up to another level.

“Adebayor has confidence and you can tell he enjoys the game. He is someone who is very talented on the ball and he is also an unselfish player.

“If he can give someone a goalscoring opportunity, he will always play him in.

“He does a good job keeping possession and he always works really hard for the team.

It’s great to have a player of his quality and it is fun for the rest of the team to play with someone like that.”


Were those comments a slight dig at Defoe? I guess only Dempsey knows.

I had intended to start up a new thread regarding all this and had titled it in my mind , 'Greedy boy shooting V Team Play' but then the debate kicked off here instead.

So I will finish by saying, in the main, we're playing with one striker and three supporting just behind him rather than the out and out two upfront, and for me this requires even more awareness and selfless play by the lone striker rather than a two upfront partnership . I see this from the likes of, Torres and RVP for their teams and I just want to see a bit more of this from Defoe too. I find it frustrating and unforgivable watching our attacks peter out due to greed by any of our players when there are better options . I felt, Defoe took this greedy play to a higher level even by his standards versus Villa. During the course of the game I learned he's on 199 league goals so I sat down thinking that he's not going to pass to anyone today in the final third and I'm sure his team mates felt the same!

He's a good player and as Baz says in his above post, he comes across as a likeable chap. I certainly don't hate him but as a footballer I just think he could've been a better player and scorer if he were less selfish.


Lastly , there are plenty of articles on his page, on Spurs News Now that have bigged Defoe up this season.. Here's the latest article singing his praises.

http://thepremierleagueowl.com/jermain-defoe-an-apology/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jermain-defoe-an-apology


Blimey. Alright, I'll have one more shot at this and it'll be the last I have to say on the matter.

My point is about balanced criticism. Yes he made some poor decisions and should be criticised for them, but not to the exclusion of all that he did right. He's slagged off when he does bad and ignored when he does well. The favourites are praised to high heaven when they do well but their mistakes are ignored.

No Balance, none whatsoever.

This is the 'supporters' Arnie and your putting up the headlines underlines my point. Positive praise for Defoe which I have not seen even mentioned on any forum I visit until now.

And only because I've stood in his corner.

It is something that has been endemic at Spurs for as long as I have been following them. Funnily enough I had one of my 2 hour phone chats with the Old man yesterday and he said the same, he can remember it from when he watched the double winning side. Haters gotta hate, as they say, and we seem to have far more than our fair share at Spurs.

It dri ves me up the wall mate as, IMO, it is the antithesis to support.

Anyway, I've said my piece and can only hope that it is taken on board with ALL of our players given a fair share of balanced criticism. They all wear the same shirt so should all be given the same consideration.