too good for the bench

I sat down late in a hotel bar on Saturday night with a great bunch of lads and we got all soon got around to our one common passion - football. They were Lilywhites - not the sort from North London but from Preston North End.

What's happened to Super Pav? one asked. Anywhere else and he would play every week!. I, of course, am now left with complete egg on my face because I confidently predicted we would not see him on a pitch in a Tottenham shirt again. Little did I know then that he would make a late cameo appearance coming off the bench to score the winner to our delight the very next day.

There is an art to managing a large world-class squad. Fergie has it, Wenger has it..... Harry?. Don't get me wrong - the guy is a great manager but as a man who supposedly has a reputation of being able to manage players he has fallen flat on his face a number of times. Considering the club has accumulated less silverware than my local tea shop why has it spent so much money on so many supposedly over-rated players?.

When I look at the sad face of Mr Pavlyuchenko sitting week on week upon the bench, thousands of miles away from home and his short career fast running out of time it is not surprising that the Russian icon sees his future elsewhere. Back in 2008 he arrived as our new super-star striker who would score at least 25 goals a season and take Spurs to a new level. He admitted then, and still does, that he finds learning another language a huge challenge.

The debate, no doubt, about just how good he really is will be split. All opinions are valid, but, can we really say that a player can be judged on a handful of recent full appearances - usually supported by a 'B' cast that are not familiar with the pattern of play?. A player needs to play - especially if you have been flown with your family half way around the globe and promised the earth. For those of you that will say it is all about the money - you are wrong. I have now met many both present and past players and all live for the roar of the crowd and are deeply proud of doing a job that most men would probably do for nothing. To have come so far in your career and be dumped and forgotten must be sole destroying - especially when you know that your years in your chosen profession are numbered.

Many top quality players have come and gone - Bent, Bentley, Crouch, Keane, Murphy, Zamora and Jenas to name but a few. All have either flourished in the past or have found their careers once again taking off in pastures new. Oh and by the way.... Add two more names to that list if not played in a rotation system - Jermain Defoe & Sandro. Far too classy to play the occasional game. Many top Premiership teams will be knocking on Harry`s door come next month.

And the point of this article?. If some players are just too good to sit on the bench and our current manager refuses to adopt a rotation system, who should we buy to replace these players come January?. Ask the average fan and he will name world class players that will bring home our first title in over half a century. OK - if that`s the case who do you drop and would he be happy warming the seats of those about to depart?.

Tottenham, in my opinion, will not become the consistent top 3 side we all crave until the club ceases to become one that turns-over top class players (like Roman Pavlyuchenko) without giving them the opportunity on a regular basis alongside the main X1 to show what they can really do. The Directors should also think twice before bringing-in non-English speaking players in the future who will both struggle with the culture of our country and have to communicate through an interpreter. Management isn`t just about the team that`s on the pitch.... It`s about the strength of the squad .

Written by AlfieConnFanClub.



Read more: http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7510896#ixzz1h66X8wHp

What a load of bollox hes had plenty of chances if he was really that good better teams than QPR would come in for him its funny how Lought puts good stuff up about his b/f but never the bad and never good stuff about Defoe or Dawson or when Crouch was here. Yes he scored a goal so what hes the next Messi ? do me a favor we need better strikers than him as Ion said Damaio looks the bees knees.

Yes an absolute load of twaddle, we want to see pav do well but he hasnt seized the chance when its been there for him and i think its through lack of application or effort.
It may be hard to replace him and i dont think we will get damiao, but you never know and it depends where we are when the window opens, i am sure harry will buy or get someone on loan, i did hear that maybe kaka could be persuaded on loan?
Personally i dont think pav is happy, and didnt harry say he wouldnt sell crouch, but he did, i reckon pav will go.

I was not meaning your post Ion i was on about what Lought posted its your opnion u agree with it i do not im not just talking about the Sunderland game either Pav has had enough chances and hes not taking them Arry comes and says he a a talent hes not going to come out and says hes bobbins is he ?. 3 Years now and hes 4th Choice something must be wrong somewhere as ive said if hes special better teams than QPR would want him and he would get more of a run in the 1st team

If i was referring to your post ion i would have the guts to say so, and then debate it out, i was actually referring to the main thread that pav hasnt been given a chance, he has and hasnt seized it in my opinion, and thats why he continues to be a bench option for harry.
If you personally think pav should be first choice then who would you drop for him?
I make harry right on the pav situation and he has said he doesnt want to lose him, but the signs arent good and i cant see ade, defoe or vdv being dropped for him.
Defoe is far faster than pav and is more of a threat to defences but even he is finding it hard to displace the first choice of ade and vdv.

I think also baz that if pav had proved himself then harry wouldnt have had to loan sign ade, he looked good for russia the same season we signed him and i really wanted the player at whl.
Well he hasnt gone yet and perhaps he will get his chance again at some stage this season.

but ade has missed so many chances of late. but we cant drop him because he works hard and we play better with im in the team

that being said pav has more goals then a lot of top names.

suarrze has got 9 goals in about 28 games and hes started almost al of liverpool games

i honestly belive we play better with pav in the team then defoe.
defoe is only a good inpact sub. he has no team awarness. hes greedy and scores less then pav. go back over the last 2 season and in all the big games harry nearly picks either crouch or pav up until ade came along.


ion right that chance aganst saturday was not a sittter from pav yet not a word on the chanceses ade miises. consistency lads please

i also think pav ade and vdv all on same wave lengh. they like to do nice passing.

i do think harry playing games and pav will go but id sell defoe first


he left before because he thought portsmouth would be better and hes now moaning again that he mite have to leave.

sorry defoe but your 30 no big clubs will take you.

Lought how can you go on about consistency u never ever slag Pav off even when his shots go near the corner flag and yes we do slag other strikers off me and Baz both called Ade when he missed a few in a couple of games cant remember which ones do u Baz ?

pav is lazy and some he shoots to much but he scores more then defoe.

defoe for 4 goals last season that is just woefull.
if defoe dont score then he dont offer nuffing.

pav movment is better has better stats and scores in big games.

but i agree ade should start most games

Loughtonlegend wrote:pav is lazy and some he shoots to much but he scores more then defoe.

defoe for 4 goals last season that is just woefull.
if defoe dont score then he dont offer nuffing.

pav movment is better has better stats and scores in big games.

but i agree ade should start most games

Well we should start a vote on this one lought because defoe is very well marked in games,whenever i see him chasing in on goal its usually with 2 or 3 defenders on his shirt tails.
I have to admit he has been a little disappointing with his finishes, for me too many go straight at the keeper, and then the keeper looks to have made a great save, when in effect he could have placed the ball, but its also the positions he gets into that make him a well marked striker, he just doesnt get the time to place the ball too often, he has to snap shot instantly otherwise they are on him in a flash .
Pav is a different striker completely, he doesnt have defoes speed, and he doesnt get as many shots in on goal as defoe does, hence you are looking at defoes goal scoring chances and comparing them with pavs imo.
Of the two i prefer defoe, but you seem to go for players that look a bit indifferent when playing for spurs, the controversial ones if you like, nothing wrong with that at all, i hate players not being given a chance at some stage, i think young andros townsend is a great player and ready for the first team, but he doesnt get many chances.

MarkA249 wrote:I was not meaning your post Ion i was on about what Lought posted its your opnion u agree with it i do not im not just talking about the Sunderland game either Pav has had enough chances and hes not taking them Arry comes and says he a a talent hes not going to come out and says hes bobbins is he ?. 3 Years now and hes 4th Choice something must be wrong somewhere as ive said if hes special better teams than QPR would want him and he would get more of a run in the 1st team

Mark, try reading my post again, I have agreed with nothing. I still believe that Pav will, and should, be the first of all the strikers to go as, in my opinion, he offers less to the overall effectiveness of the team based on past performances. Apart from that, all I was doing was putting his performance against Sunlun into a bit more perspective.



Lought is most definitely blinkered when it comes to Pav but then so are many others in the opposite way. My comments were based on the Sun'lun game alone, where I thought his performance was very good, once he'd found his feet. I also felt that he linked well with Adabad and his running off the ball was, frankly, excellent.



This doesn't add up to me agreeing with the article, just that I can see some truths in it. However, I qualified my overall assessment of our strikers with Pav being at the bottom of the pecking order. It is only a handful of fans who believe Aitch is wrong, the vast majority see the set up as correct. VDV and Adabad ARE first choice as they are our two most creative striking threats. Defoe is next with Pav in last. With 2 better support strikers in place, Pav is surplus to requirements. A shame but that is the reality of the situation. As the vast majority see it that way too it is then apparent that Aitch is NOT playing games with Pav but playing his strikers on their merits.



However, Pav got an opportunity on Sunday and, IMO, took it well. From a Spurs perspective this can only be seen as an excellent result. 4 on form strikers is, after all, better than just 3.

Mr Plums. wrote:If i was referring to your post ion i would have the guts to say so, and then debate it out, i was actually referring to the main thread that pav hasnt been given a chance, he has and hasnt seized it in my opinion, and thats why he continues to be a bench option for harry.
If you personally think pav should be first choice then who would you drop for him?
I make harry right on the pav situation and he has said he doesnt want to lose him, but the signs arent good and i cant see ade, defoe or vdv being dropped for him.
Defoe is far faster than pav and is more of a threat to defences but even he is finding it hard to displace the first choice of ade and vdv.

FFS Lew, read my whole first post will you.

I stand corrected Ion i apoligise Sorry

ionman34 wrote:

Mr Plums. wrote:If i was referring to your post ion i would have the guts to say so, and then debate it out, i was actually referring to the main thread that pav hasnt been given a chance, he has and hasnt seized it in my opinion, and thats why he continues to be a bench option for harry.
If you personally think pav should be first choice then who would you drop for him?
I make harry right on the pav situation and he has said he doesnt want to lose him, but the signs arent good and i cant see ade, defoe or vdv being dropped for him.
Defoe is far faster than pav and is more of a threat to defences but even he is finding it hard to displace the first choice of ade and vdv.

FFS Lew, read my whole first post will you.

Hello Ion, sorry mate, i must admit i had to come off the forum very quickly after reading this thread and posting a reply, i am a support contact on a tinnitus site, and i have been speaking to a very young girl via email who has come down with loud intrusive tinnitus, i rushed through the thread because i know what the early days of the affliction is like ! sorry mate i will read through your thread again.

ionman34 wrote:That's actually not too bad an article Lought and gives one pause for thought.
I have seen a few comments, on this board and others, that Pav took his chance well but did virtually nothing else otherwise.

I beg to differ.

I saw a player that took a few minutes to find his feet, after coming on, then proceeded to make some very intelligent runs into good positions. His movement, for me, was excellent from that point onwards. He found himself in two excellent scoring positions through his intelligent running. The first, where he headed wide, was a clever run to the near post. Half a degree of angle more on the cross would have seen him meeting the ball rather than trying to react to the keeper saving. He got slaughtered somewhat for that miss, after seeing it from a different angle, I saw an extremely difficult chance where he had a split second to react.
Minute margins but he was there to take the chance.

The goal owes as much to Pav's movement as it does to VDV's excellent pass. The pass would never have been made if Pav hadn't made such an intelligent run, and the finish was right out of the top drawer.

I think the latest comments all spring from fans running out of patience with him. He looked disinterested in Europe but, as the article states, there may be a plethora of reasons behind that, not least unfamiliarity.

What I did notice from the Sunderland game is that Pav can actually play off Adabad effectively.I said last season, and the season before that, that our forwards were all 'support strikers' in that none were really capable of leading a line but all play well off a striker who does. It seems that, so far, having Adabad up front has allowed ALL of our 'support strikers' (this includes VDV)to play their natural game. This has lead to far better reading on striker stats.

The problem for Pav is that we already have 2 'support striker' playing on top form ahead of him. VDV has been excellent throughout the majority of the season. From a 'goal creation' point of view he has been highly effective and he has also weighed in with a few. Defoe too has something like 6 assists to his name, alongside the goals he has been scoring. Our most effective goal threat though is Adabad, altogether he has been involved in 14 of our goals, either setting up or scoring, he's top of the tree and is the reason we are so effective up front. He is a genuine line leader and this is why he has to be played whether scoring or not, things happen around him.

So, with both VDV and Defoe in close to top form and Adabad effectively indispensible, Pav really hasn't got too much of a shout as he can't play the Adabad role and the other two are, frankly, better.

I think he will need to go really as we need another number 9 type player, particularly as Adabad staying is not a given. Pav would be the makeweight for me, purely because he's far too inconsistent in his effort.

I hope and pray for the Damiao signing to go ahead, I really do think this fella has all the tools to score pantloads in the EPL, he's Shearer with skills!

Point taken young man, i read the first bit and have to admit i didnt finish reading it to the later paragraphs, seems like you agree with me then.?